Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

Thank you very much, a great and very useful research and sharing indeed.

A quick question... hope you dont mind.
What will be the alternative
suggestion/recommendation for treating those fishes known to be not toleranting copper very well?

Note: Very sorry, as i had not read all the many messages here... in case someone already asked this question and in case the answer is already shared.

Thanks.
Coppersafe or formalin
 
An amazing piece of work! Many, many thanks for sharing your expertise. Particularly appreciative of explanation of acronyms - hope your example is followed more often!
 
Hey I have a question so what would be C collare? Pakistan? I have a raccoon and a pakistan in a 55 QT and the raccoon is showing white dots around the right eye so I’m thinking it’s ich, what dosage and what type of copper should I use? Or should I use CP how do I get Cp btw?
 
Hey I have a question so what would be C collare? Pakistan? I have a raccoon and a pakistan in a 55 QT and the raccoon is showing white dots around the right eye so I’m thinking it’s ich, what dosage and what type of copper should I use? Or should I use CP how do I get Cp btw?
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yes, Chaetodon collare used to be called the pakastani butterfly, but red tail butterfly is the preferred name now.
Coppersafe in a treatment tank is the easiest way to treat marine ich. Chloroquine is more difficult to get since it’s sale was restricted during Covid because people were taking it themselves.
Jay
 
I couldn't find Damsels in the chart.

I'm finally receiving a Starcki Damsel (Chrysiptera starcki) after two years of trying to get one here in Italy!

Can I safely quarantine it with 2 ppm coppersafe, followed by metro and prazipro after copper removal?

#fishmedic

Thanks a lot!
 
I couldn't find Damsels in the chart.

I'm finally receiving a Starcki Damsel (Chrysiptera starcki) after two years of trying to get one here in Italy!

Can I safely quarantine it with 2 ppm coppersafe, followed by metro and prazipro after copper removal?

#fishmedic

Thanks a lot!
Skip metro and yes with others
 
I couldn't find Damsels in the chart.

I'm finally receiving a Starcki Damsel (Chrysiptera starcki) after two years of trying to get one here in Italy!

Can I safely quarantine it with 2 ppm coppersafe, followed by metro and prazipro after copper removal?

#fishmedic

Thanks a lot!

+1 on yes, but skip the metro.

Jay
 
Why no metro for damsels? Also, what about copper treatment of blennies?
 
Why no metro for damsels? Also, what about copper treatment of blennies?

Not specific for damsels, but Metronidazole overlaps with copper in what it treats and it is a poorer choice to use as a bath. It does have some benefit against Hexamita and Spironucleus gut protozoans when mixed in food at 0.50% by weight. Otherwise, skip it for use in the water, it is super old school, and just not very effective.

Coppersafe is fine for blennies, ionic copper is a bit more stressful.

Jay
 

The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be absolute in most cases. All fish are individuals and can and will react differently than the norm to certain medications or situations. Just because most tangs do well in copper doesn’t mean that every tang will do well. The chart is numbered in levels of tolerance/ease with each method according to the general experience of several knowledgeable people including myself, @4FordFamily, @Humblefish, @eatbreakfast, @evolved and @Brew12. I thank each of them for their input and help in putting this whole thing together. You will also find helpful advice and tips for QT’ing many of the fish in this chart that are deemed more difficult.

Acronyms used: TTM = Tank Transfer Method CP = Chloroquine Phosphate

Fish and Treatment Table part1.jpg
Fish and Treatment Table part2.jpg
Fish and Treatment Table part3.jpg


** Angels have been found to be even more sensitive to ammonia poisoning than most other fish so more care should be taken to keep ammonia absolutely absent from the tanks during tank transfer method. This is why they are marked with an elevated risk level with TTM. With copper (both kinds) most angels have been found to be relatively resilient in it provided the copper levels are slowly raised over the course of 4 or 5 days. Taking longer never hurts as long as velvet is not suspected.

** The marked wrasse in this section have been found to be tolerant of these copper products provided the levels are carefully risen to therapeutic levels over the course of 4-10 days. Watching carefully for tolerance issues since all fish are individuals and may react differently than the norm. No wrasses should be treated with CP until more testing can be done to understand why they seem to do so poorly.

** Wrasse in general should be allowed to settle and start eating for several days before copper treatment is started. While they can handle copper, it’s best to give them the time before hand for maximum chance of survival. If a wrasse has an injury or infection before going into QT, that “settling time” should be extended until the injury or infection has healed completely before starting copper. Provide a small glass dish of sand for the wrasse that bury at night to help keep them comfortable while in QT.

Rsaalman.JPG

Photo by R2R member @Rsaalman

** The harlequin tusk seems to be tolerant of all coppers but care must be taken with how quickly the levels are raised. Take 4-5 days to raise copper up to therapeutic levels and watch for tolerance issues

** I have kept lionfish in copper for long periods before without issue, but it's tricky to get them eating and keep them eating. Also, not all the lions attempted lasted in the copper. It seems that 2 out of 5 would do ok and the rest would perish rather quickly.

** I have kept puffers in copper for periods of time as well, but it was chelated copper and it was risky. They refused to eat for up to 2 weeks and had to be enticed using live foods and whole gulf cost shrimp. I didn't have the luxury of raising the levels slowly, so if it's absolutely needed to treat a puffer with copper, then do so slowly if possible.

**Some Zebrasoma tangs seem to be completely intolerant of copper. This is quickly decided if red blotches, loss of color or the refuse to eat while raising the copper levels. If this happens the fish should be removed into a QT with no copper in it until it resumes eating and it's color has returned. If it happens again after a second try in copper, another QT method should be used if possible.

If you have any questions on an individual species not listed here, please ask. Also, never be afraid to create a thread in the disease forum with QT questions as well.

d_adler.jpg

photo by R2R member @d_adler
Hi,
What is the best course for a toby pearl puffer for qurantine? I'm very nervous to use copper since they're sensitive to it. I can't find CP online except the $100 stuff which is really out of my price point since I just lost all of my fish. I read TTM isnt the best at erradicating parasites as copper. Is it better to risk doing copper very slowly as you mentioned or risk doing TTM with possibility it isnt as effective as copper? Thank you in advance for any help!
 
Hi,
What is the best course for a toby pearl puffer for qurantine? I'm very nervous to use copper since they're sensitive to it. I can't find CP online except the $100 stuff which is really out of my price point since I just lost all of my fish. I read TTM isnt the best at erradicating parasites as copper. Is it better to risk doing copper very slowly as you mentioned or risk doing TTM with possibility it isnt as effective as copper? Thank you in advance for any help!
TTM can cause stress to many fish. Hyposalinity is one that is effective with puffers but can be stressful with certain specimens. If doing Hypo- keep an eye on fish first few days for any discomfort. Other option is general cure opposed to copper but if copper- chelated form
 
Last edited:
Hi,
What is the best course for a toby pearl puffer for qurantine? I'm very nervous to use copper since they're sensitive to it. I can't find CP online except the $100 stuff which is really out of my price point since I just lost all of my fish. I read TTM isnt the best at erradicating parasites as copper. Is it better to risk doing copper very slowly as you mentioned or risk doing TTM with possibility it isnt as effective as copper? Thank you in advance for any help!
Hi, Tobies are fine with Coppersafe, it is the ionic copper they are sensitive to. Here is a link to our standard quarantine protocol:

Jay
 
Hi, Tobies are fine with Coppersafe, it is the ionic copper they are sensitive to. Here is a link to our standard quarantine protocol:

Jay
Thank you! Is copper power ok? That is what I have. If not I can get the coppersafe. I am planning to follow that protocol moving forward. Just did 30 day observation before.
 
TTM can cause stress to many fish. Hyposalinity is one that is effective with puffers but can be stressful with certain specimens. If doing Hypo- keep an eye on fish first few days for any discomfort. Other option is general cure opposed to copper
Thank you! I didn't think of hyopsalinity. And I will look into general cure!
 
Thank you! Is copper power ok? That is what I have. If not I can get the coppersafe. I am planning to follow that protocol moving forward. Just did 30 day observation before.
Yes, copper power is also fine.
Hay
 
Thank you! I didn't think of hyopsalinity. And I will look into general cure!
As Jay stated- Copper safe or copper Power is acceptable. Add aeration and watch ammonia levels during treatment
 
As Jay stated- Copper safe or copper Power is acceptable. Add aeration and watch ammonia levels during treatment
Ok thank you! I appreciate it. Will probably go with copper power and dose a little slow
 
Ok thank you! I appreciate it. Will probably go with copper power and dose a little slow
When you say dose slow, if youre referring to ramping up the copper - Not advised as often can ramping up can allow a given disease if present a chance to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease.
 
When you say dose slow, if youre referring to ramping up the copper - Not advised as often can ramping up can allow a given disease if present a chance to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease.
Oh thank you for telling me that!! That makes sense. Ok I will just dose normally. One other question..when treating with copper how often is it recommended to test copper levels to make sure they are therapeutic through the 30 days?
 

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