Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

[drstardust]

I only treat with Chloroquine for 14 days and then transfer the specimen to another QT for further treatment.

Do you do further treatment in the second QT? I was under the impression you treated for all things in the 1st QT (like with 14 days of CP with 2 rounds of GC, or something similar), and then the second tank was just for a 2 week observation.

 

[Aaron-A2]

@Humblefish So for wrasses in general, would you recommend a 14 day chelated copper treatment, and transfer to a fresh QT system? If so, can you explain the general reasoning behind this as well as what level PPM you bring them up to?

 

[Humblefish]

Do you do further treatment in the second QT? I was under the impression you treated for all things in the 1st QT (like with 14 days of CP with 2 rounds of GC, or something similar), and then the second tank was just for a 2 week observation.

In QT#1 I treat with Chloroquine + praziquantel OR copper + praziquantel + metronidazole.

QT#2 is primarily for antibiotic treatment (if needed), feeding prazi + metro laced food (internal parasites), and observing for prazi resistant external worms.

 

[drstardust]

In QT#1 I treat with Chloroquine + praziquantel OR copper + praziquantel + metronidazole.

QT#2 is primarily for antibiotic treatment (if needed), feeding prazi + metro laced food (internal parasites), and observing for prazi resistant external worms.

Perfect! I've been doing basically the same thing.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish So for wrasses in general, would you recommend a 14 day chelated copper treatment, and transfer to a fresh QT system? If so, can you explain the general reasoning behind this as well as what level PPM you bring them up to?

Yes, because IME wrasses are sensitive to just about all medications so a) You want to slowly raise copper on them (5-7 days) before beginning the 14 day countdown at a therapeutic level b) You want to limit the duration of full copper (14 days) used on them.

I currently treat all wrasses with chelated copper (Copper Power) @ 1.75ppm.

However, I would really like to try using copper sulfate pentahydrate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-copper-med.364112/

But the therapeutic level is very exact (0.15–0.20 ppm) for pure copper sulfate. I'm hoping this will be my answer for testing low range copper: https://sensafe.com/exact-idip/

The Hanna checker's margin of error (± 0.05ppm) is too great when trying to maintain 0.15-0.2ppm.

 

[drstardust]

I'm hoping this will be my answer for testing low range copper: https://sensafe.com/exact-idip/

Say whatttt ;Jawdrop
An even more accurate digital checker...it must be my birthday

 

[Aaron-A2]

Yes, because IME wrasses are sensitive to just about all medications so a) You want to slowly raise copper on them (5-7 days) before beginning the 14 day countdown at a therapeutic level b) You want to limit the duration of full copper (14 days) used on them.

I currently treat all wrasses with chelated copper (Copper Power) @ 1.75ppm.

However, I would really like to try using copper sulfate pentahydrate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-copper-med.364112/

But the therapeutic level is very exact (0.15–0.20 ppm) for pure copper sulfate. I'm hoping this will be my answer for testing low range copper: https://sensafe.com/exact-idip/

The Hanna checker's margin of error (± 0.05ppm) is too great when trying to maintain 0.15-0.2ppm.

Thanks for the details. I have 2 QT tanks setup, one of which has a Pyrex dish full of sand. I'll treat with copper for 14 days and move them over to the second QT for observation.

Out of curiosity, would you treat genicanthus angels the same (swallowtails)?

 

[Humblefish]

Say whatttt ;Jawdrop
An even more accurate digital checker...it must be my birthday

I first learned about it today from a "good" wholesaler. Here is the copper reagent: https://sensafe.com/exact-strip-micro-copper/

There is even word they are trying to develop a reagent for Chloroquine phosphate.

Out of curiosity, would you treat genicanthus angels the same (swallowtails)?

I only treat angels with Chloroquine: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

If you have to use copper on an angel, go slow (5-7 day ramp up period).

 

[Aaron-A2]

I first learned about it today from a "good" wholesaler. Here is the copper reagent: https://sensafe.com/exact-strip-micro-copper/

There is even word they are trying to develop a reagent for Chloroquine phosphate.



I only treat angels with Chloroquine: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

If you have to use copper on an angel, go slow (5-7 day ramp up period).

While using cp on angels, so you follow the same 14 day regime?

Thanks for all the info btw!

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Yes, because IME wrasses are sensitive to just about all medications so a) You want to slowly raise copper on them (5-7 days) before beginning the 14 day countdown at a therapeutic level b) You want to limit the duration of full copper (14 days) used on them.

I currently treat all wrasses with chelated copper (Copper Power) @ 1.75ppm.

However, I would really like to try using copper sulfate pentahydrate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-copper-med.364112/

But the therapeutic level is very exact (0.15–0.20 ppm) for pure copper sulfate. I'm hoping this will be my answer for testing low range copper: https://sensafe.com/exact-idip/

The Hanna checker's margin of error (± 0.05ppm) is too great when trying to maintain 0.15-0.2ppm.

Hmmm looks like I may have to order the copper test as i already have this test kit and see if the copper test gives better results than they other test that has been way off for me in the pass. I do like the fact that iDip is working to improve the kit still.

 

[cody hendrix]

I've been running a large number of Cirrhilabrus & Halichoeres genus wrasses thru CP @ 40mg/gal. My success rate with them is about the same as when I was using chelated copper. (Wrasses & anthias are, in general, a PITA to get through QT.)

Also, please note that I only treat with Chloroquine for 14 days and then transfer the specimen to another QT for further treatment. I was having more trouble getting them thru CP when treating for the standard 30 days, so duration may be part of the problem.

With only the 14 day in the CP do you feel like they were qt long enough to take care of everything?

Also out of the two what would you say is your preferred method for qt of fairy's. copper or CP.

Like you said wrasse are a pain, I am having trouble getting some through qt. Right now my process is to get them eating. Once they are eating I run 2 rounds of gen cure with it also mixed into food. Then I run furan-2 ,metro and kano. Then I run Chelated copper. I am only having about a 60 or so percent success rate. I feel like that is very low.

What do you think? I feel like I am covering all bases.

 

[4FordFamily]

While using cp on angels, so you follow the same 14 day regime?

Thanks for all the info btw!

Yes CP and 14 days, then transfer.

 

[drstardust]

There is even word they are trying to develop a reagent for Chloroquine phosphate.

Whoaaa! That would change this whole game

 

[tastyfish]

I first learned about it today from a "good" wholesaler. Here is the copper reagent: https://sensafe.com/exact-strip-micro-copper/

There is even word they are trying to develop a reagent for Chloroquine phosphate.



I only treat angels with Chloroquine: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

If you have to use copper on an angel, go slow (5-7 day ramp up period).

Chloroquine detection without a spectrometer!? Awesome!

FWIW, I and a number of other (much more experienced than I) reef keepers routinely treat wrasse with chloroquine at a therapuetic level of 10ppm. The data collated in this thread appears to be at a much higher. It continues to be far more reliable for me than copper for most species, with the absolute exception of Anthias, which are extremely sensitive and should not be treated with chloroquine at any level

 

[Humblefish]

Yes CP and 14 days, then transfer.

^^ This... BUT:

1. You must be sure that the copper/CP level was at full therapeutic for the entire 14 days.
2. Nothing from QT#1 can be repurposed for QT#2. The latter needs to be a different tank/equipment, all new water, etc. ONLY TRANSFER THE FISH, NOTHING ELSE. And aerosol transmission should always be respected: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aerosol-transmission.190292/
3. Because this 14 day method allows very little margin for error, I recommend a minimum 14 day observation period in QT#2. To be sure nothing got missed or to use additional medications (e.g. Prazipro for flukes, antibiotics for bacterial infections, etc.)

 

[Aaron-A2]

^^ This... BUT:

1. You must be sure that the copper/CP level was at full therapeutic for the entire 14 days.
2. Nothing from QT#1 can be repurposed for QT#2. The latter needs to be a different tank/equipment, all new water, etc. ONLY TRANSFER THE FISH, NOTHING ELSE. And aerosol transmission should always be respected: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aerosol-transmission.190292/
3. Because this 14 day method allows very little margin for error, I recommend a minimum 14 day observation period in QT#2. To be sure nothing got missed or to use additional medications (e.g. Prazipro for flukes, antibiotics for bacterial infections, etc.)

Makes sense. Out of curiosity, for wrasses that like to burrow would you provide a glass dish of sand? I'm concerned how the sand absorbing copper would impacting dosage and ramping dosage over 5-7 days.

 

[Humblefish]

Makes sense. Out of curiosity, for wrasses that like to burrow would you provide a glass dish of sand? I'm concerned how the sand absorbing copper would impacting dosage and ramping dosage over 5-7 days.

IME; sand absorbing copper is minimal. Using rock in QT is a much bigger problem. Just monitor your Cu level daily and you should be fine.

 

[tastyfish]

FWIW, I'd be really nervous about running Chloroquine for only a 14 day period. I've seen reinfections at day 12-14 and extended the usual 21 days I run it for.

 

[cody hendrix]

Ok so I went ahaah and dosed the CP at 40mg. Now my Katherine's wrasse is not doing well. Not very active getting pushed around by the current stuff like that. I went ahead and put carbon in the tank to pull the CP. Is this normal. I do have a few other Fairy Wrasse in the tank .It didn't seem to affect them at all. They are still very active and eating well.

 

[Maritimer]

Individual fish can react very, very differently to the same medicines, just as individual humans can react differently to, for instance, bee stings. It may be that that particular Katherine's is intolerant to CP.

~Bruce