Fish Aren't Eating

[CanadianReefer]

One thing I do, and this is purely personal preference, so follow only if you feel comfortable, when I acquire a new fish my first goal is to get the fish eating and not treating. The fish is already stressed out, it's been through God knows what. That's the reason my QT is painted black on 3 sides. Once I am done acclimating the fish I let the fish settle in within his new environment. After couple of hours I will try to feed either a very small amount of mysis, or even pellets. Once I see the fish has been eating properly for 2-3 days, then I will start my treatment regiment. Now this applies fish that already seem healthy. If I see a fish that looks sick, all bets are off. We go into emergency survival mode. This has worked for me so far. But as I said, please follow only if you feel comfortable and it's case by case basis.

And in your case, I think you will be fine as soon as you do your WC after the copper treatment is over. My clowns used to sulk inside the PVC fitting the entire 6 weeks I did the copper treatment. But they would come out to eat just a little. Copper is toxic, and fishes don't necessarily enjoy that toxic environment. Best of luck to you.

6 weeks? Wow, I've never heard of such a long time in copper. Perhaps it has something to do with the chelated version? I use cupramine myself, so I'm not familiar with coppersafe. . Max 30 days according to the folks at Seachem when using cupramine. 14 days for velvet, 30 for ich. I guess we all have different routines.

Anyhoo, for the OP, I hope your fish are okay and that they start eating soon. Let us know how they do now that they are off the meds

Cool, same here, they would hide and eat very little, which made me think they were sick but I guess, it's from the meds. I pulled them off the meds, so I'm going to see what happens next

 

[Crashjack]

Awesome thanks for all this info! Next time I'll start with prazi first as well! I'm using coppersafe in my 10 gallon qt. I dosed slowly. I'm thinking the stress and meds suppressed their appetite. Hopefully they start eating. They look healthy so I guess it's not all that bad

There are some very knowledgeable folks on here in regards to treating and quarantining fish (not me). My understanding from reading theirs and some other info. is that 10 days is the minimum treatment time when using copper or CP. I think where the confusion comes in is that 10 days is not enough to eradicate parasites in the system. However, it should be enough time to where no parasites remain on the fish and are in stages of their life cycle where they are either crawling around on a hard surface, or attached to a hard surface, or being killed by the medication during their free-swimming stage. After 10 days you would have to move the fish to a sterile tank (could be the DT), while your copper or CP is still at a therapeutic level. This isn't ideal because there is no margin for error, there is little observation time to catch an error (a mistake might manifest itself as an infected DT), and no time for the fish to recuperate from exposure to the medication if you put right into the DT. Treating the full 30-35 days should eradicate the parasites from your QT, allowing you to remove the medication with carbon and water changes, and allowing you to keep the fish in the QT for another 10 days or whatever for observation and recuperation. If I haven't explained this correctly, I'm sure one of the experts will correct me.

I recently had a somewhat similar situation with 2 ORA juvenile Ocellaris clowns. It took them 4-5 days to start eating, and that was before I started any medication. When I had more mature tomato clowns years ago, I don't remember having trouble getting them to eat or them being skittish. I'm guessing this is more of an issue with juvenile clowns. Mine have been in my DT for a little over a month and though they eat fine, they still mainly swim back and forth across the glass and care nothing about the over 100 lbs. of rock in my 6'x2'x19" tank. My tomatoes from 20 years ago always oriented around the rock work and after I added an anemone, they held very tight to where the anemone was in the rock work. My new ocellaris clowns orient around the black silicone where the front glass panel connects to the side glass panels.

 

[JAMSOURY]

There are some very knowledgeable folks on here in regards to treating and quarantining fish (not me). My understanding from reading theirs and some other info. is that 10 days is the minimum treatment time when using copper or CP. I think where the confusion comes in is that 10 days is not enough to eradicate parasites in the system. However, it should be enough time to where no parasites remain on the fish and are in stages of their life cycle where they are either crawling around on a hard surface, or attached to a hard surface, or being killed by the medication during their free-swimming stage. After 10 days you would have to move the fish to a sterile tank (could be the DT), while your copper or CP is still at a therapeutic level. This isn't ideal because there is no margin for error, there is little observation time to catch an error (a mistake might manifest itself as an infected DT), and no time for the fish to recuperate from exposure to the medication if you put right into the DT. Treating the full 30-35 days should eradicate the parasites from your QT, allowing you to remove the medication with carbon and water changes, and allowing you to keep the fish in the QT for another 10 days or whatever for observation and recuperation. If I haven't explained this correctly, I'm sure one of the experts will correct me.

I recently had a somewhat similar situation with 2 ORA juvenile Ocellaris clowns. It took them 4-5 days to start eating, and that was before I started any medication. When I had more mature tomato clowns years ago, I don't remember having trouble getting them to eat or them being skittish. I'm guessing this is more of an issue with juvenile clowns. Mine have been in my DT for a little over a month and though they eat fine, they still mainly swim back and forth across the glass and care nothing about the over 100 lbs. of rock in my 6'x2'x19" tank. My tomatoes from 20 years ago always oriented around the rock work and after I added an anemone, they held very tight to where the anemone was in the rock work. My new ocellaris clowns orient around the black silicone where the front glass panel connects to the side glass panels.

Oh I didn't even know the 10 days was just for the parasites on the fish. Which I guess in most cases is fine.

That's how my clowns are right now, they care nothing about the awesome rock scape I took hours to make. They seem to be eating more than usual now. I have them in the DT. I'm guessing the meds/stress hindered their eating.

If they have ich or some internal parasite, how long does it take before it develops and kills them?

 

[SashimiTurtle]

idk much about quarantines so i couldn't tell you but over a month? seems like a really long time to qaurantine new fish isn't the usual like 30 days?

+1

Honestly, being in copper for a month I'd go ahead and put them in your display. Any parasites would be long gone by now, unless you had something in your display and that's why they are in QT.

My clowns prefer PE Mysis pellets. They will peck at frozen Mysis but spit them out. They are both grown adult Ocellaris. The female is over 3", male is close behind her.

 

[mcarroll]

If they have ich or some internal parasite, how long does it take before it develops and kills them?

There's no way to say for sure.....but as long as they don't quit eating I'd expect their immune systems to get fully engaged and for that to keep them perfectly healthy until they die of old age or an extended power outage.

 

[Crashjack]

Oh I didn't even know the 10 days was just for the parasites on the fish. Which I guess in most cases is fine.

The 10 days doesn't kill the parasites on the fish. It merely allows enough time for the parasites to complete that cycle and leave the fish on their own. Again, I'm just regurgitating my understanding.

 

[CanadianReefer]

I'm glad to hear that they are eating. Avoiding the rock work is totally normal for a clown fish. They don't swim in and out like other fish - they tend to hover over the rock work more than anything. If you have an anemone, they may take to it - only one of mine ever has (& he avoided my anemones and took to an elegance colony instead). Really depends if they were wild caught our tank raised, because with tank raised clowns, they often don't have the same instinct initially.

If you want my honest opinion about QT, I think it's ok to treat prophylactically with prazipro, since it's fairly mild, but with things like copper etc., Sometimes this can do more damage than good. You're better off treating on a case by case basis, and really understanding the fish you're purchasing before making any decisions.

For instance, there are fish that you would likely kill in copper - wrasse, angelfish, dragonettes etc. If you see ich on these types of fish, try TTM instead. On hardier breeds, put them in copper only if you see ich present. If it's a Tang, it's a 50/50 call on whether or not to treat prophylactically with copper - I've only ever had 1 Tang who didn't need it.

Also keep in mind that most bacterial infections, if noticed early enough while the fish is still eating, can be treated in the DT by adding medication to food. Flukes can be treated in the DT too, if need be, since prazipro can go in a reef tank. My point is that QT should be used for observation mainly, specifically for observing overall health and watching for ich and velvet (which can't effectively be treated in the DT). If, in 30-45 days, that fish is still eating well and looking healthy, add him to the DT.

If you've treated a fish to the point that it is super stressed and then add him to your tank, if there's anything in your tank (which can come in on a coral, or your LR etc no matter how careful you are), then your fish will be susceptible. A fish that is healthy and has been eating well for 30 days with no signs of illness, on the other hand, should be able to handle the transfer with ease.

Sometimes we over treat because we panic - I'm guilty of it too - but we can be doing more bad than good. Healthy fish that aren't stressed can fight off disease much easier.

Anyhoo, just my two cents from what I've learned throughout the years in the hobby.

Good luck!

 

[CanadianReefer]

Oh I didn't even know the 10 days was just for the parasites on the fish. Which I guess in most cases is fine.

That's how my clowns are right now, they care nothing about the awesome rock scape I took hours to make. They seem to be eating more than usual now. I have them in the DT. I'm guessing the meds/stress hindered their eating.

If they have ich or some internal parasite, how long does it take before it develops and kills them?

Really depends. Ich can go away on its own or it can slowly (or quickly) kill the fish. Usually depends on the type of fish and its overall health. Velvet can kill much more quickly, in general. Typically, if you can see it on the fish, the disease has progressed to the point where the fish is in danger. Internal parasites, again, are totally unpredictable. If it stops them from eating, it becomes much harder to treat - but if they are still eating and you're able to dose their food, you have a much better chance

 

[JAMSOURY]

I'm glad to hear that they are eating. Avoiding the rock work is totally normal for a clown fish. They don't swim in and out like other fish - they tend to hover over the rock work more than anything. If you have an anemone, they may take to it - only one of mine ever has (& he avoided my anemones and took to an elegance colony instead). Really depends if they were wild caught our tank raised, because with tank raised clowns, they often don't have the same instinct initially.

If you want my honest opinion about QT, I think it's ok to treat prophylactically with prazipro, since it's fairly mild, but with things like copper etc., Sometimes this can do more damage than good. You're better off treating on a case by case basis, and really understanding the fish you're purchasing before making any decisions.

For instance, there are fish that you would likely kill in copper - wrasse, angelfish, dragonettes etc. If you see ich on these types of fish, try TTM instead. On hardier breeds, put them in copper only if you see ich present. If it's a Tang, it's a 50/50 call on whether or not to treat prophylactically with copper - I've only ever had 1 Tang who didn't need it.

Also keep in mind that most bacterial infections, if noticed early enough while the fish is still eating, can be treated in the DT by adding medication to food. Flukes can be treated in the DT too, if need be, since prazipro can go in a reef tank. My point is that QT should be used for observation mainly, specifically for observing overall health and watching for ich and velvet (which can't effectively be treated in the DT). If, in 30-45 days, that fish is still eating well and looking healthy, add him to the DT.

If you've treated a fish to the point that it is super stressed and then add him to your tank, if there's anything in your tank (which can come in on a coral, or your LR etc no matter how careful you are), then your fish will be susceptible. A fish that is healthy and has been eating well for 30 days with no signs of illness, on the other hand, should be able to handle the transfer with ease.

Sometimes we over treat because we panic - I'm guilty of it too - but we can be doing more bad than good. Healthy fish that aren't stressed can fight off disease much easier.

Anyhoo, just my two cents from what I've learned throughout the years in the hobby.

Good luck!

That helps a lot! I'm really new to all this so I'm going off what I read. It's definitely a learning experience. I may treat case by case and see how that goes. I think I put unnecessary stress on these poor guys lol thanks again for the help!! Learned a lot from this thread!

 

[CanadianReefer]

That helps a lot! I'm really new to all this so I'm going off what I read. It's definitely a learning experience. I may treat case by case and see how that goes. I think I put unnecessary stress on these poor guys lol thanks again for the help!! Learned a lot from this thread!

No worries at all We will all have differing opinions based on what's worked for us personally, so try different things and see what you're most comfortable with - then go for it. Stability and patience are key in this hobby and it's a great learning experience. It's a good group of folks and we are here to help you along the way

 

[Crashjack]

That helps a lot! I'm really new to all this so I'm going off what I read. It's definitely a learning experience. I may treat case by case and see how that goes. I think I put unnecessary stress on these poor guys lol thanks again for the help!! Learned a lot from this thread!

The spectrum runs from quarantine EVERYTHING for 72+ days with medicating the fish for 30+ days, to never quarantine anything and focus on building your fishes' immunity. I recommend you learn everything you can and then do what you feel you can handle and what you think is best for your situation. When I got into the hobby the first time (over 20 years ago), I either bought fish from a particular store that performed a two-week quarantine or if not from that store, I performed hyposalinity in a QT. I had never heard of a coral dip and put every new coral right smack dab in the DT. I never had a problem.

I realize now that my methods in the past might have helped but didn't come close to insuring no parasites, and I probably got a little lucky. Before I recently got back in the hobby, I did a lot of reading. I learned what proper quarantine procedures are and developed a general understanding of why they are what they are. However, I also realized I can't follow perfect quarantine procedures, nor do I really have the desire to try. My choices were, don't get back into the hobby, throw-up my hands and take no precautions at all, or devise a plan to perform a quarantine method that would give me a good chance of success, albeit not the best method and certainly not 100% full-proof (I don't believe any method is 100% full-proof... if a surgeon in an operating room can't guarantee no infection with 100% certainty, some aquarist in his living room can't guarantee no parasites with 100% certainty... JMHO). Instead of looking for that silver bullet, learn everything you can and then implement what you feel is best for your situation and your risk tolerance.

 

[mcarroll]

I recommend you learn everything you can and then do what you feel you can handle and what you think is best for your situation.

That is some solid advice!

my methods in the past might have helped but didn't come close to insuring no parasites, and I probably got a little lucky.

I agree with everything said, but I take a small exception to the idea of success being the result of luck just to further the discussion.

Leaving success to luck, even in theory, kind of implies that failure is the default state and that you have to get lucky in order not to fail.....when in fact the opposite is true.

Luck only intervenes for certain when it lets a fish get too bad to be treated before we come along. That's luck.

If that doesn't happen and the fish lives past Day 0, then at least in my experience it's just about all on us....no luck. Some already-diseased cases can be treated with meds, some without meds. Some already-diseased cases can even be treated by placing the fish into a healthy reef tank with other healthy fish. Some cases even have no disease. The possibilities!! There is room in that process to screw up like a human can...but there are also some established methods for success where the most common "screw ups" are avoided entirely. Success doesn't just come with luck, but luck can be along for the ride!

As you said, if you "learn everything you can and then do what you feel you can handle and what you think is best for your situation" then you and your fish are going to do well!

(There's no rule against quoting the same line from someone twice in the same post just for emphasis is there?)

 

[Crashjack]

Leaving success to luck, even in theory, kind of implies that failure is the default state and that you have to get lucky in order not to fail.....when in fact the opposite is true.

Good points. I actually worked very hard on those tanks... even did manual daily water changes. Though my quarantining methods weren't very good, my tanks were successful, and I never had a parasite outbreak.