Fish dropping dead

[Mariette]

Sorry I’m advance for the long post

I’ve had 8 fish in 2 different qt’s w water and equipment cross contaminating. 4 of them are dead. 1 of the qts was used for a gramma that died of just about everything you can imagine. I washed the tank and equipment with vinegar and let it dry before bringing in new fish. All fish that died listed below died in copper and General trio within 1 week of each other.

1 fairy wrasse stopped eating and lost weight.
1 flasher wrasse was doing great and was found dead all of a sudden.
1 leopard wrasse seemed fine but died suddenly w red all up and down it’s sides.
1 stripped blenny started swimming vertically a bit for a few days and died.

All dead fish were freshwater dipped w no sign of Flukes.

The remaining 4 fish are done w copper and are now in General trio and prazi in what I hope is a sterile tank. 20g w substrate, pvc pipes, plastic plants, HOB filter, heater, air stone, Powerhead pointed at surface. The 4 fish are:

1 royal gramma w white on its mouth and 1 clamped gill. Since starting General trio a few days ago, gramma shown improvement. Eating. No longer in hiding all day. Gill movement appears improved.

1 yellow wrasse appears fine

1 engineer goby appears fine

1 clown appears fine. Nice and fat.

I feed 3 times a day. Morning: live baby bribe shrimp. 4 ish: chewy pellet and flakes. 7 ish: a variety of frozen foods including a reef blend soaked in garlic and vitamins.

Current parameters:
Temp: 77.5
Salinity: 1.025
Ph: 8.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

I’ve been doing daily water changes, dosing, and readings. If any fish survive this qt, they will join my yellowtale damsel in my 110g and I may just stop adding fish. I’m so so so so frustrated and heartbroken.

what the heck am I doing wrong?!? Too many fish at once? I find 2 fish alone in qt gets stressed so I tried 4 at a time. Maybe the tank wasn’t properly sterilized? I don’t know. I’m not using the Hanna checker. I can’t get one where I am. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[sfin52]

@ngoodermuth help or @4FordFamily

 

[sfin52]

@HotRocks. Can't forget you

 

[Hermie]

I don't have a great answer but I would say, maybe don't freshwater dip the next few to see if that helps since it's something you are doing with all of them that have a bad outcome. Not that a freshwater dip kills fish but maybe it's making them susceptible to some other pathogen/parasite etc. I could be wrong, I am sure plenty of people freshwater dip, I just don't like doing it with fish that aren't euryhaline.

 

[Mariette]

I don't have a great answer but I would say, maybe don't freshwater dip the next few to see if that helps since it's something you are doing with all of them that have a bad outcome. Not that a freshwater dip kills fish but maybe it's making them susceptible to some other pathogen/parasite etc. I could be wrong, I am sure plenty of people freshwater dip, I just don't like doing it with fish that aren't euryhaline.

Sorry. I wasn’t clear. When I said “all dead fish were freshwater dipped”, I mean after they died.

 

[Small triggers]

Also, not that's its killing your fish, but they do not need fed 3 times a day. That is leading to excessive water changes/nitrates/possible ammonia?

 

[lolmatt]

I would be suspicious of the lfs these were bought from. But beyond that, the wrasses could have reacted to the copper (they commonly don't tolerate it well), the gramma probably came in with velvet, and the vertical swimming sounds swim bladder related.

Try a simpler qt next time, with a week of observation prior to medicating, CP instead of copper (depending on the fish), make sure not to reuse substrate (or remove it, yes even for the wrasses), and add an ammonia badge.

I've gone through periods where it seems like every fish I buy dies, and others where I can't seem to kill them even if I wanted to. I think as you mature in the hobby you naturally get better at selecting healthy fish and knowing what to watch out for.

Don't get discouraged!

 

[Quietman]

That has to be disappointing and very frustrating. Trying to do everything right and having it go so wrong.

Might want to try reducing number of fish you try at one time. Understand you may want some together for pairing and such, but the more you have, the more you have that can go wrong. Also less time you have per fish to monitor and react.

Slow adds, you have plenty of time to build up stock.

Agree with above, try observational qt and treat only if needed.

Good luck!

 

[Mariette]

Also, not that's its killing your fish, but they do not need fed 3 times a day. That is leading to excessive water changes/nitrates/possible ammonia?

I have wrasses and no copepods in qt. That’s why I feed three times a day. The daily water changes are because they’re on meds that require daily water changes and dosing. Nitrates test at 0.

 

[4FordFamily]

The heavy feeding makes me wonder about ammonia. Did you seed these QT with biospira or a similar product?

Unfortunately, it is difficult to quarantine wrasse. What's worse, if you do not quarantine them, they harbor parasites they often show no symptoms of themselves due to their thick slime coat, mucous cocoon sleeping habits (or sleeping under the sand), and overall resilience if they're even remotely healthy.

 

[Mariette]

The heavy feeding makes me wonder about ammonia. Did you seed these QT with biospira or a similar product?

Unfortunately, it is difficult to quarantine wrasse. What's worse, if you do not quarantine them, they harbor parasites they often show no symptoms of themselves due to their thick slime coat, mucous cocoon sleeping habits (or sleeping under the sand), and overall resilience if they're even remotely healthy.

I did test daily for ammonia and it always read at 0.25 although I’ve been warned the copper makes the ammonia reading slightly high. They’re out of copper now and ammonia testing at 0. I did seed but not w biospera. I used some live rock from Dt.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Question... did you ever treat the water with Prime? Prime and some types of copper can be a deadly combo.

 

[Mariette]

Question... did you ever treat the water with Prime? Prime and some types of copper can be a deadly combo.

Good question. No. Luckily, I researched beforehand and dodged that bullet

 

[Mariette]

Update: this morning, the engineer goby was displaying signs of swim bladder issues. His back half kept floating upwards and he wasn’t in hiding. Now, no longer floating upwards but also not behaving normally. He’s almost always in hiding but he’s laying on the floor in the corner in plain sight. Maybe just hasn’t found his spot in the new tank? I’ve got pvc pipes in there and thTs where he always was in the treatment tank. Not breathing rapidly though. Odd. I’m worried about him

Yellow wrasse is also displaying signs of swim bladder issues. He’s bouncing around at the top of the waterline and pushing his head out of water.

Ph from old talk to new tank was 8 to 8.2. I understand unjury and sudden change in parameters can cause swim bladder issues. Must be something I did wrong that caused 2 of 4 fish to have swim bladder issues.

Feeing like a horrible fish owner right now

 

[4FordFamily]

When fish start to die, they can behave this way. A fish with swim bladder issues will behave like a bobber typically, in that they’re overly buoyant.

Seeding a tank with live rock is not typically going to make a marginal impact at reducing ammonia, particularly in a small or highly stocked QT.

 

[Mariette]

When fish start to die, they can behave this way. A fish with swim bladder issues will behave like a bobber typically, in that they’re overly buoyant.

Seeding a tank with live rock is not typically going to make a marginal impact at reducing ammonia, particularly in a small or highly stocked QT.

Oh no. That’s not good. I didn’t use anything but live rock. And water from my Dt. I did do daily ammonia readings that came up at 0.25 no matter how much water I changed. But that’s the copper I think. Or thought. I don’t know anymore. They’re out of copper and ammonia is now 0 so that’s at least good. Next time, I’ll qt 2 fish at a time, seed w biospera or something similar, and get an ammonia badge. Let’s just hope I didn’t mess these guys up too much and they pull through.

Thank k you for your help

 

[ZaneTer]

I know that this is going to get me put in front of a firing squad but have you considered not quarantining?

It is incredibly harsh on fish. I have lost one fish in 4 years and that was a tang that ate a palythoa.

I understand with diseases such as velvet that the risk could be huge but so far you have killed every fish you have gotten into quarantine.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hey, sorry about the losses. I had that happen and never pinpointed the issue. I almost single handed wiped out powder blues in the 80’s

I am not a QT person, so can’t offer any advice other than you’re not a bad fish keeper. You’ll figure it out.

 

[Mariette]

I know that this is going to get me put in front of a firing squad but have you considered not quarantining?

It is incredibly harsh on fish. I have lost one fish in 4 years and that was a tang that ate a palythoa.

I understand with diseases such as velvet that the risk could be huge but so far you have killed every fish you have gotten into quarantine.

I appreciate the risk of the firing squad. Thank you. I have considered it. I’ve had my tank wiped out 3 times due to no quarantine. I even did quarantine with no meds for a month and still had Velvet sneak in. This was my 1st attempt at qt with meds and, yes, it’s been a disaster. 4 of 8 fish are dead and, clearly, it’s all my fault. I can’t seem to keep em alive either way. I am strongly considering observational quarantine. Nice 20 g tank w substrate and live rock. Keep em comfortable and happy. Observe. Treat if necessary. Maybe a mth isn’t long enough. Maybe I’ll do 2 or 3 mths. As long as the fish are well, no rush.

 

[Mariette]

Hey, sorry about the losses. I had that happen and never pinpointed the issue. I almost single handed wiped out powder blues in the 80’s

I am not a QT person, so can’t offer any advice other than you’re not a bad fish keeper. You’ll figure it out.

Aren’t you a sweetheart? Thank you