Fish dying at once, but corals still ok

[grumpy47]

set up my 55 gallon tank last June. Bought cheap white rocks from Amazon, that said they were safe for saltwater tanks. Also bought several plastic plants that said they were safe. Added 2 clowns and a green chromis. Few weeks later bought a damsel and 6 stripe wrasse And 2 corals. All seemed good for another month, then 1 morning I found every fish was dead.

I did a 50% water change and as I was moving the rocks, they were losing a lot of white particles like a cloud of dust. Thinking that was the problem, I removed them and when I was done with the water change, I went to but supplies to clean the filter.
We let the tank sit a week and bought live rock from the pet shop. Added 2 new clowns. Added a few more fish weeks later and within a month, all the fish died again. They fine at night when I got to bed and all dead in the morning! Didn’t notice anything strange when removing them from the tank.
I have the Hanna instruments for testing along with the basic API master saltwater test kit.
My grandson got me started and he doesn’t understand why all the fish keep dying, but the corals are fine. he thinks it may be the plastic plants. He doesn’t have any in his tank.
we tried a 3rd time, bought more fish and 2 cleaner shrimp over the next few weeks. Then had the same issue. Did a partial water change on Saturday and Sunday morning - my fish & shrimp were dead. We had added some tank decoration for Halloween and switched them out for Christmas. Never thought they would not be safe in the tank, but now we’re thinking we shouldn’t have done that.
Removed the plants and holiday decorations, waited a week and did another partial water change and cleaned the filter too.
at this point, I’ve lost about 400 worth of fish. Don’t know why this keeps happening.
all Our tests at right we’re on the specs and nitrates are 0-3, still within safe range. Any suggestion?

 

[Sharkbait19]

set up my 55 gallon tank last June. Bought cheap white rocks from Amazon, that said they were safe for saltwater tanks. Also bought several plastic plants that said they were safe. Added 2 clowns and a green chromis. Few weeks later bought a damsel and 6 stripe wrasse And 2 corals. All seemed good for another month, then 1 morning I found every fish was dead.

I did a 50% water change and as I was moving the rocks, they were losing a lot of white particles like a cloud of dust. Thinking that was the problem, I removed them and when I was done with the water change, I went to but supplies to clean the filter.
We let the tank sit a week and bought live rock from the pet shop. Added 2 new clowns. Added a few more fish weeks later and within a month, all the fish died again. They fine at night when I got to bed and all dead in the morning! Didn’t notice anything strange when removing them from the tank.
I have the Hanna instruments for testing along with the basic API master saltwater test kit.
My grandson got me started and he doesn’t understand why all the fish keep dying, but the corals are fine. he thinks it may be the plastic plants. He doesn’t have any in his tank.
we tried a 3rd time, bought more fish and 2 cleaner shrimp over the next few weeks. Then had the same issue. Did a partial water change on Saturday and Sunday morning - my fish & shrimp were dead. We had added some tank decoration for Halloween and switched them out for Christmas. Never thought they would not be safe in the tank, but now we’re thinking we shouldn’t have done that.
Removed the plants and holiday decorations, waited a week and did another partial water change and cleaned the filter too.
at this point, I’ve lost about 400 worth of fish. Don’t know why this keeps happening.
all Our tests at right we’re on the specs and nitrates are 0-3, still within safe range. Any suggestion?

Any spots/dusty appearance? Sounds like velvet or some other dangerous parasite.

 

[grumpy47]

Any spots/dusty appearance? Sounds like velvet or some other dangerous parasite.

Didn’t notice any changes in the appearance of the fish. Strange that they’re fine for weeks at a time and it’s always been an overnight loss. All dead in the morning.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Didn’t notice any changes in the appearance of the fish. Strange that they’re fine for weeks at a time and it’s always been an overnight loss. All dead in the morning.

Possible internal parasite then. Do you QT your fish?

 

[Duffer]

Velvet will do that, just went thru it and my tank is 3 yrs old..bought a fish he died 2 days after and then lost 8 other within 2 days..some of the fish did not have any parasites on them...the only other thing is a possible stray voltage

 

[grumpy47]

Possible internal parasite then. Do you QT your fish?

Never noticed any issue with any one of them, so no.

 

[grumpy47]

Velvet will do that, just went thru it and my tank is 3 yrs old..bought a fish he died 2 days after and then lost 8 other within 2 days..some of the fish did not have any parasites on them...the only other thing is a possible stray voltage

All the pumps and the cooler are plugged into a surge protector. We bought a cooler, because the temp was getting up to 79/80. We are seniors and keep our home at temp 76.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Never noticed any issue with any one of them, so no.

I’d QT anyway. You never know what they’re carrying that you can’t see.

 

[LBReefer]

What are your tank parameters? The shrimp dying makes me think that you might have an ammonia problem.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In particular. . . what is your ammonia and PH level? The issue may be low dissolved oxygen as with those rocks, they are offering no bacteria or buffering capabilities. Unfortunately, this is a hobby in which you cant go by a rule " I'll get by". You literally have to get the best you Cannot afford. We are trying to duplicate the ocean and its' environment in which many of species come from.
There is economic ways to set up and build upon it but there are also minimums such as :
Live rock
Good test equipment
Proper lighting
supplements such as liquid bacteria, prime for water /ammonia, copper (in case of parasites, etc)
Proper filtration to break down waste and complete nitrogen cycle
proper diets
Reliable heater and thermometer

Additionally, you placed clowns and coral a week after setting tank up with no establishment of bacteria cultures, Actual cycling and in straight words as you experienced. . a disaster waiting to happen. I am assuming you were involved in freshwater keeping. The principles are Very different and there is a lot of waiting, chemical changes and game of patience that you will have to endure the fist 3-4 months.

There is nothing you did wrong except going to store that was willing to take your money but not give you sound advise as to what youre getting into. I am a former full line pet store owner and I owed it to my customers to sell them the $10 bottle of bacteria and a good test kit instead of $100 in fish as I knew in time they would be back to spend Much more.

 

[grumpy47]

What are your tank parameters? The shrimp dying makes me think that you might have an ammonia problem.

Ammonia was 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5
phosphate 0
calcium 442
magnesium 1250
salt 1.025
ph 8.2

this last batch of fish we had for about 2 months. The cleaner shrimp were added 3 weeks ago. None showed any signs of distress. No spots. We’re not hanging at the top of the tank. We have 2 wave pumps , 1 to create water movement at the surface and the other creates movement for the corals. We had a tropical tank with guppies and mollies for 20 years, before switching to salt water. Only had 1 problem with ick in all that time.

 

[grumpy47]

In particular. . . what is your ammonia and PH level? The issue may be low dissolved oxygen as with those rocks, they are offering no bacteria or buffering capabilities. Unfortunately, this is a hobby in which you cant go by a rule " I'll get by". You literally have to get the best you Cannot afford. We are trying to duplicate the ocean and its' environment in which many of species come from.
There is economic ways to set up and build upon it but there are also minimums such as :
Live rock
Good test equipment
Proper lighting
supplements such as liquid bacteria, prime for water /ammonia, copper (in case of parasites, etc)
Proper filtration to break down waste and complete nitrogen cycle
proper diets
Reliable heater and thermometer

Additionally, you placed clowns and coral a week after setting tank up with no establishment of bacteria cultures, Actual cycling and in straight words as you experienced. . a disaster waiting to happen. I am assuming you were involved in freshwater keeping. The principles are Very different and there is a lot of waiting, chemical changes and game of patience that you will have to endure the fist 3-4 months.

There is nothing you did wrong except going to store that was willing to take your money but not give you sound advise as to what youre getting into. I am a former full line pet store owner and I owed it to my customers to sell them the $10 bottle of bacteria and a good test kit instead of $100 in fish as I knew in time they would be back to spend Much more.

We waited a month before adding the 1st 2 clowns and the chromis to the tank. Then waited another few weeks before adding 2 more fish and 2 corals. We have Hanna instruments for the water tests. A Fluval 307 filter. A skimmer, Prime for conditioner and even use water thru an osmosis system. We ask questions at the fish store and follow their direction.

 

[InactiveAcct]

Hmm a lot going on here that it could be. Usually hard fish crashes are caused by hypoxia (water movement equipment failure), hyper/hypothermia (heater failure), a sudden increase in water toxins, stray voltage, from damaged equipment, or a rampant pathogen.

Starting with the easy ones to rule out
Oxygen:
Do you have good water turnover? Is it a glass top with a hang on back filter? Probably still unlikely in that case but still something to consider

Temp
What temperature do you keep your tank? Does it get drafty in your house at night where temps could drop very fast?

Stray voltage:
You don’t feel electrical stinging / shocks when you touch the water? No cables in the water appear to be nicked/ damaged?

Water toxins:
What are you doing to remove chlorine/ chloramine?
You mentioned you added live rock. To me it’s a possible red flag. When I started a tank with live rock about 12 years ago I remember feeling like I was waiting forever, like 6-8 weeks for the nitrogen cycle to establish. You could see the ammonia slowly increase to toxic levels, followed by nitrite, and then a gradual lowering of both over the 12 weeks. You mentioned nitrate, but honestly it’s the least telling of the 3 I mentioned.

Did you do water changes literally right before the deaths? If so was the salinity: temp of the fresh water reasonably matched? What is your salinity now and how do you know? If you’re using a refractometer, did you calibrate it?

Pathogens:
Unless you find a smoking gun in the suggestions above, this is what we’re left with, and it can get really complicated. Safest bet is to go fallow for some 3 months or so. Always, always QT. I never used to, I do now because it’s so horrible to watch everything die because you added one new fish, and it gets very complicated to fix diseases in your display. I usually do tank transfer method with the 36 hour velvet protocol and haven’t lost a single fish. Also add prazi at the tail end of two of the transfer (look up humblefish thread). It’s a lot of work but it’s rewarding to know your fish is clean when it goes in the tank. I haven’t lost a single fish in my display tank since I got back into the hobby, although a few did die in QT when I hadn’t started using the tank transfer method (I really failed with cupramine quarantines).

In your case though, as fast as velvet and a few others can kill, it’s still shocking to go to bed and wake up with everything dead. For that reason I’d still take a look at your temperature / toxin practices, but also have a nice fallow break with tank transfer method quarantines

 

[vetteguy53081]

We waited a month before adding the 1st 2 clowns and the chromis to the tank. Then waited another few weeks before adding 2 more fish and 2 corals. We have Hanna instruments for the water tests. A Fluval 307 filter. A skimmer, Prime for conditioner and even use water thru an osmosis system. We ask questions at the fish store and follow their direction.

The fluval unless cleaned regularly will generate high nitrates and nitrites. No doubting but zero ammonia with a newer tank is very unusal. By chance are you using API test kits for ammonia-nitrate-nitrite ?
Trying to get to the root of issues with no presence of parasites.

 

[grumpy47]

We waited a month before adding the 1st 2 clowns and the chromis to the tank. Then waited another few weeks before adding 2 more fish and 2 corals. We have Hanna instruments for the water tests. A Fluval 307 filter. A skimmer, Prime for conditioner and even use water thru an osmosis system. We ask questions at the fish store and follow their direction.

Forgot to mention, our grandson got us started and he has the same equipment we have. Only difference was he didn’t have any plastic plants and started with live rock. We had the cheaper rock bought from Amazon, that was supposed to be salt water safe. we got rid of that rock after the 1st group of fish died and bought the live rock from the fish store.

 

[grumpy47]

The fluval unless cleaned regularly will generate high nitrates and nitrites. No doubting but zero ammonia with a newer tank is very unusal. By chance are you using API test kits for ammonia-nitrate-nitrite ?
Trying to get to the root of issues with no presence of parasites.

We clean the filter every 4 months. Yes, Using API test kits.

 

[Sam816]

Checked for stray current in the tank? I reckon it would also hurt the corals but worth taking a look.

 

[grumpy47]

Hmm a lot going on here that it could be. Usually hard fish crashes are caused by hypoxia (water movement equipment failure), hyper/hypothermia (heater failure), a sudden increase in water toxins, stray voltage, from damaged equipment, or a rampant pathogen.

Starting with the easy ones to rule out
Oxygen:
Do you have good water turnover? Is it a glass top with a hang on back filter? Probably still unlikely in that case but still something to consider

Temp
What temperature do you keep your tank? Does it get drafty in your house at night where temps could drop very fast?

Stray voltage:
You don’t feel electrical stinging / shocks when you touch the water? No cables in the water appear to be nicked/ damaged?

Water toxins:
What are you doing to remove chlorine/ chloramine?
You mentioned you added live rock. To me it’s a possible red flag. When I started a tank with live rock about 12 years ago I remember feeling like I was waiting forever, like 6-8 weeks for the nitrogen cycle to establish. You could see the ammonia slowly increase to toxic levels, followed by nitrite, and then a gradual lowering of both over the 12 weeks. You mentioned nitrate, but honestly it’s the least telling of the 3 I mentioned.

Did you do water changes literally right before the deaths? If so was the salinity: temp of the fresh water reasonably matched? What is your salinity now and how do you know? If you’re using a refractometer, did you calibrate it?

Pathogens:
Unless you find a smoking gun in the suggestions above, this is what we’re left with, and it can get really complicated. Safest bet is to go fallow for some 3 months or so. Always, always QT. I never used to, I do now because it’s so horrible to watch everything die because you added one new fish, and it gets very complicated to fix diseases in your display. I usually do tank transfer method with the 36 hour velvet protocol and haven’t lost a single fish. Also add prazi at the tail end of two of the transfer (look up humblefish thread). It’s a lot of work but it’s rewarding to know your fish is clean when it goes in the tank. I haven’t lost a single fish in my display tank since I got back into the hobby, although a few did die in QT when I hadn’t started using the tank transfer method (I really failed with cupramine quarantines).

In your case though, as fast as velvet and a few others can kill, it’s still shocking to go to bed and wake up with everything dead. For that reason I’d still take a look at your temperature / toxin practices, but also have a nice fallow break with tank transfer method quarantines

The tank has now been set up 7 months. Yes, we have a glass top, but the Fluval 307 filter, which we clean every 4 months as recommended. We have a wave runner to push water movement at the surface And a second unit to create movement around the corals.
we keep the tank at 76 using a cooler, if we didn’t have that - it would be around 80.
no stinging when we touch the water.
we use city water filtered thru an osmosis unit for water changes and also add Prime.
we have a refractor and hydrometer and use both to check the salt levels.
Thinking back, he might not have given the water he added enough time to reach the same temp as the tank. maybe That’s the problem? I do remember the first time it happened, was a day he had to work. But, if he did the water change on Sunday - it could’ve been Monday morning. Needless to say, he had a crappy work day.
He did water changes every week at first, then switched to every 2 weeks this past month. guess in the future, he should let it sit in the bucket overnight to warm up to room temp. In our case, that’s 76...

 

[vetteguy53081]

We clean the filter every 4 months. Yes, Using API test kits.

API well known for false readings and may be part of why fish are being lost. Your levels may be higher than kit is indication. As long as they dont use API kits or test strips, take a good size water sample to a trusted LFS and have them test water for you to verify readings and to compare with yours

 

[grumpy47]

API well known for false readings and may be part of why fish are being lost. Your levels may be higher than kit is indication. As long as they dont use API kits or test strips, take a good size water sample to a trusted LFS and have them test water for you to verify readings and to compare with yours

Thanks, we will probably do that to verify our readings