Fish dying in QT
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Hanna Instruments
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This was approved by Hanna USA and must not have reached the Canadian office yet, who doesn't work with aquariums as much as our USA office. We will make sure they are informed of this new development. The HI702 is approved for use in seawater.
HotRocks
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Thanks for verifying. I should have just linked this thread.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hi702-copper-checker-for-seawater.386806/
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Kactai
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Thanks for your support folks. I will stay the course and continue to try and refine my qt process. Hopefully I can land on something that works/ gain the necessary experience without too many more loses. I really appreciate all of the help
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Kactai
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Hi Again,
I would like your input on my QT procedure for new additions going forward.
I have a 20g long and a 20g standard tanks as my QT tank. The 20 long will become my coral/invert QT/frag tank. The 20 standard will house my fish during QT.
Here is the process I am proposing:
1. Receive the fish, float to temp 15-30 min.
2. Drip acclimate 15-20 min
3. 1 hr Parguard bath
4. 1-3 days of observation and feeding
5. Prazipro treatment.
6. Start chelated copper treatment after 1-2 days after prazipro treatment once fish are eating. Treat using chelated copper for 30 days
7. Remove copper
8. Another Paraguard 1hr bath treatment.
9. Prazipro treatment
10. Two weeks observation.
11. Add fish to display
I have a few questions. I'm getting all of my fish as small as I can.
What is the Max bio-load that a 20 g long can withstand for QT if I feed very lightly?
Can I use egg crate to create dividers in the 20g to separate fish as needed?
Are my wait times for recovery between treatments good? 1-3 days of observation after receiving and start copper 1-2 days after the prazipro treatment?
Is 30 days copper treatment long enough If I am not going to transfer the fish to a new tank? I do have the option of housing them in buckets overnight while I clean and dry a tank or would it be better to just do 60 days of copper?
Let me know what you think. Any input is appreciated. I am trying to manage risk while keeping losses at a minimum and your advice is invaluable.
I would like your input on my QT procedure for new additions going forward.
I have a 20g long and a 20g standard tanks as my QT tank. The 20 long will become my coral/invert QT/frag tank. The 20 standard will house my fish during QT.
Here is the process I am proposing:
1. Receive the fish, float to temp 15-30 min.
2. Drip acclimate 15-20 min
3. 1 hr Parguard bath
4. 1-3 days of observation and feeding
5. Prazipro treatment.
6. Start chelated copper treatment after 1-2 days after prazipro treatment once fish are eating. Treat using chelated copper for 30 days
7. Remove copper
8. Another Paraguard 1hr bath treatment.
9. Prazipro treatment
10. Two weeks observation.
11. Add fish to display
I have a few questions. I'm getting all of my fish as small as I can.
What is the Max bio-load that a 20 g long can withstand for QT if I feed very lightly?
Can I use egg crate to create dividers in the 20g to separate fish as needed?
Are my wait times for recovery between treatments good? 1-3 days of observation after receiving and start copper 1-2 days after the prazipro treatment?
Is 30 days copper treatment long enough If I am not going to transfer the fish to a new tank? I do have the option of housing them in buckets overnight while I clean and dry a tank or would it be better to just do 60 days of copper?
Let me know what you think. Any input is appreciated. I am trying to manage risk while keeping losses at a minimum and your advice is invaluable.
Set your QT to match the SG of the bag water, so all you need to do is float & release (no drip acclimation).
The Paraguard bath may or may not do anything useful.
It would be best to treat with Prazipro either before or after copper treatment, not concurrently.
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Kactai
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Thanks for the input. I already have paraguard so I’m just going to use it up and see what happens. So much snake oil in this hobby.
I was planning on doing one prazipro treatment before copper and a second one after. Would there be any benefit to doing two prazipro treatments? Or is just the one before copper treatment sufficient?
I was planning on doing one prazipro treatment before copper and a second one after. Would there be any benefit to doing two prazipro treatments? Or is just the one before copper treatment sufficient?
Dose Prazipro once, wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.
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Kactai
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Here is another update on this quarantine fiasco.
I received my Hanna copper checker and checked the hospital tank. Based on the API test kit I was between 1.0 and 2.0 ppm copper. On the Hanna I was at 1.12 ppm. Just below therapeutic range.
That means my fish (Swiss guard bass let and two midnight clowns) have been in copper for about a month at levels below therapeutic. So I knew I need to bring this up. I did a water change with medicated water to bring the concentration up to 1.38 ppm. The fish looked fine. I waited a day and added 1.2 ml copper to bring the level up to 1.57 ppm. Then boom that afternoon the Swiss guard basslet dies. The clownfish seem fine although a bit lethargic. The 30 day countdown begins.
In the meantime I’ve started two wrasses on Hyposalinity in the other QT. It seems to be going much better for them than the copper but I’m still not down to 1.008 salinity.
If the clowns seem ok, should I leave them in the copper for 30 now that they are finally at therapeutic dose? Or should I switch them to hypo to match the wrasses?
From 7 to 2. It’s almost a total wipe and most of it due to my inexperience and mistakes!
I received my Hanna copper checker and checked the hospital tank. Based on the API test kit I was between 1.0 and 2.0 ppm copper. On the Hanna I was at 1.12 ppm. Just below therapeutic range.
That means my fish (Swiss guard bass let and two midnight clowns) have been in copper for about a month at levels below therapeutic. So I knew I need to bring this up. I did a water change with medicated water to bring the concentration up to 1.38 ppm. The fish looked fine. I waited a day and added 1.2 ml copper to bring the level up to 1.57 ppm. Then boom that afternoon the Swiss guard basslet dies. The clownfish seem fine although a bit lethargic. The 30 day countdown begins.
In the meantime I’ve started two wrasses on Hyposalinity in the other QT. It seems to be going much better for them than the copper but I’m still not down to 1.008 salinity.
If the clowns seem ok, should I leave them in the copper for 30 now that they are finally at therapeutic dose? Or should I switch them to hypo to match the wrasses?
From 7 to 2. It’s almost a total wipe and most of it due to my inexperience and mistakes!
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Kactai
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More qt woes. One of the clownfish has died. Now I’m down to one fish from the original batch.
I was using the Hanna checker to test copper levels every two days and my copper levels kept falling to below therapeutic levels. All I have in the tank are a HOB penguin bio-wheel type filter and air stone and several PVC elbows with some Seachem matrix in the HOB filter and the bio-wheel still on.
Could the bio wheel be absorbing copper?
Is it possible that the smaller clownfish has died due to prolonged exposure to low levels of copper?
Levels have been between 1.16 ppm and 1.8 ppm on the Hanna checker for over 30 days.
I know it’s not ammonia as my badge and is yellow and I just did two 5g water changes with copper dosed water over the weekend on a 20g tank. I mean it could be ammonia but I highly doubt it based on what I just mentioned.
This really stinks as I work away from home and can not monitor the qt process myself. My gf does her best but is often overwhelmed.
There has got to be an easier way...
I was using the Hanna checker to test copper levels every two days and my copper levels kept falling to below therapeutic levels. All I have in the tank are a HOB penguin bio-wheel type filter and air stone and several PVC elbows with some Seachem matrix in the HOB filter and the bio-wheel still on.
Could the bio wheel be absorbing copper?
Is it possible that the smaller clownfish has died due to prolonged exposure to low levels of copper?
Levels have been between 1.16 ppm and 1.8 ppm on the Hanna checker for over 30 days.
I know it’s not ammonia as my badge and is yellow and I just did two 5g water changes with copper dosed water over the weekend on a 20g tank. I mean it could be ammonia but I highly doubt it based on what I just mentioned.
This really stinks as I work away from home and can not monitor the qt process myself. My gf does her best but is often overwhelmed.
There has got to be an easier way...
JMM744
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Not using the insert for the bio wheel that has carbon in it are you? Hang in there with your qt woes. There is a real learning curve to it but once you get the equipment and drugs needed on hand you will handle it a bit better. It’s tough to lose fish though. Lots of great help available here for sure. You are not alone in this so take heart.
Jim
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I use the same HOB filters you have to take out the biowheel you can only use it when seeding the qt. It needs to be taken out before you start any meds.
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Kactai
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I’m not using the carbon insert just the bio wheel with some seachem matrix. I guess I’m still at the bottom end of the learning curve after running through 6 fish. Thanks Jim
Thanks for the info about the bio-wheel. That’s is definitely where my copper is going. I appreciate the responses and words of encouragement.
The MFG (MarineLand) claims the bio-wheel will not absorb any meds, including copper.
But I get lied to by manufacturers/vendors all the time, so I guess a controlled test is in order to verify their claim.
