fish dying in SPS reef please help

[Vmacisback]

So about three months ago i transferred my livestock (fish and coral) over to my new 250G. Soon there after I have been battling against loosing fish left and right. It seems like the fish that made the transfer successfully were the wrasses and a hogfish. Most of the fish that didnt make it died from ich or possibly an ammoinia spike in the new tank. Fast forward about 3 months to today i am still having problems keeping new fish that I add staying alive. I added a kole tang, it died of ich, i added 10 Barletts anthias, they all died. Added 2 orange striped cardinals, they both died. Then added a larger naso tang he was covered in ich and died in about a week. Same with an Achilles and blue tang.

I added 3 yellow tangs and seems like they were strong enough to battle the ich and look good and are eating. Last friday I added a Chocolate tang who today is covered in ich and is not eating well and i presume will die. I am very frustrated at this point and feel like I cant really keep fish in the this new tank. I am contemplating a UV 57W to help with the ICH but am not sure that will even help. I am a long time reefer and am pretty upset with thats been happeneing as of late. Seems like every fish I have added either will not eat or breaks out in ich and cant survive long enough to fight it off. Heres a current stock list:
2 x yellow tangs
chocolate tang (new with some signs of ich)
Flame Hawk
Flame wrasse
Labouti wrasse
red velvet wrasse
midas blenny
algae blenny
yellow hogfish
magnificent foxface (new with some signs of ich)

 

[xthunderx]

Buying a UV is not a waste as long as it's probably sized for your tank it will help with ICH, but it's a band aid not a solution. Sounds like you might have moved too fast. I would move all fish into a quarantine to treat and leave the main display fallow for 6 to 8 weeks to stop the ICH cycle. It can't survive without a host. In the mean time treat the fish you still have with hypo or copper in a separate tank.

Been through this once and it's frustrating as heck, but it teaches you patience and proper quarantine procedures since you never want to go through this again. It's humbling and truly feel for you.

Good luck.

 

[Vmacisback]

Buying a UV is not a waste as long as it's probably sized for your tank it will help with ICH, but it's a band aid not a solution. Sounds like you might have moved too fast. I would move all fish into a quarantine to treat and leave the main display fallow for 6 to 8 weeks to stop the ICH cycle. It can't survive without a host. In the mean time treat the fish you still have with hypo or copper in a separate tank.

Been through this once and it's frustrating as heck, but it teaches you patience and proper quarantine procedures since you never want to go through this again. It's humbling and truly feel for you.

Good luck.

can i leave my eel in if i choose to go this route?

 

[xthunderx]

Good question, I'm not sure to be honest. I would error on the side of caution and take all animals out.

 

[Genesis Corals]

can i leave my eel in if i choose to go this route?

You can always use the tank transfer method for those that don't handle copper or hypo well.

 

[reef80]

So about three months ago i transferred my livestock (fish and coral) over to my new 250G. Soon there after I have been battling against loosing fish left and right. It seems like the fish that made the transfer successfully were the wrasses and a hogfish. Most of the fish that didnt make it died from ich or possibly an ammoinia spike in the new tank. Fast forward about 3 months to today i am still having problems keeping new fish that I add staying alive. I added a kole tang, it died of ich, i added 10 Barletts anthias, they all died. Added 2 orange striped cardinals, they both died. Then added a larger naso tang he was covered in ich and died in about a week. Same with an Achilles and blue tang.

I added 3 yellow tangs and seems like they were strong enough to battle the ich and look good and are eating. Last friday I added a Chocolate tang who today is covered in ich and is not eating well and i presume will die. I am very frustrated at this point and feel like I cant really keep fish in the this new tank. I am contemplating a UV 57W to help with the ICH but am not sure that will even help. I am a long time reefer and am pretty upset with thats been happeneing as of late. Seems like every fish I have added either will not eat or breaks out in ich and cant survive long enough to fight it off. Heres a current stock list:
2 x yellow tangs
chocolate tang (new with some signs of ich)
Flame Hawk
Flame wrasse
Labouti wrasse
red velvet wrasse
midas blenny
algae blenny
yellow hogfish
magnificent foxface (new with some signs of ich)

Yes by all means...Please take out all livestock and let the fish goes fish tank go fishless for at least 2 months...even so there is no guarantee but it worked for me. Tangs are more prone to parasites because they are scaleless. I now will qt every fish that goes into both my display...no matter what. I qt at least 4 weeks with copper and 2 weeks with prazipro and have not lost a fish since. I have a 54 watt aqua UV on my 210 and it helps to manage it but the ick comes back regardless. You may also have marine velvet in conjunction with ick but ick is more known to us and easily spotted. I would stop purchasing fish and try it out. I feel your pain...As I've been through this one too many times. Tang Species like powder blue/brown, goldrim, white cheek and archillis are known for ick and marine velvet magnets...

 

[Marshall O]

Biggest thing you can do to help yourself is to slow down, and also QT all new fish. Throwing a new wild caught fish (that will very likely have Ich and/or other parasites) into a tank with established with active fish is not a recipe for success. Especially not Tangs that are susceptible to Ich.

 

[TJ's Reef]

First off before taking the Kid Gloves off here most of if not all of us here have paid the price for lack of patience and or taking chances in this hobby myself included. So obviously you had parasites in the old system known or otherwise ??? When you transferred all the Fish into the new system it stressed them to the point of an Ich outbreak which is not uncommon. At this point the gloves come off and will ask you why would you not have dealt with the issue at this time ??? A major pain to be certain but anywhere you look/read/ask in this hobby the answer/solution is readily available to all especially experienced Reefkeepers...... Instead you risked all the lives of the Fish you continued to drop into your Reeftank with known infestation just hoping for the best ??? Ultimately they paid the price not you, with there lives. It confuses and saddens me as to why at this day and age would any experienced Reefkeeper/Aquarist let this happen repeatedly.

NOW, you only have two options as a responsible Reefkeeper

#1 Remove from display and treat all Fish Cupramine or Hyposalinity for full dose/duration while running the Display Fallow for 8-11 weeks.

#2 Take a break from the hobby until you are in a place where you can properly take care of these living animals. Not money related, just being responsible for the lives relying on you.

If this seems a little harsh, it was meant to be as these are living creatures that ought to be cherished and taken care of to the best of our abilities. There not disposable toys or pieces of Art. Like I first stated we all have made some mistakes, successful Reefkeepers learn from theirs some sooner than others but all eventually. Those who won't learn should do something else with less dire consequences.

____, Todd

 

[Vmacisback]

First off before taking the Kid Gloves off here most of if not all of us here have paid the price for lack of patience and or taking chances in this hobby myself included. So obviously you had parasites in the old system known or otherwise ??? When you transferred all the Fish into the new system it stressed them to the point of an Ich outbreak which is not uncommon. At this point the gloves come off and will ask you why would you not have dealt with the issue at this time ??? A major pain to be certain but anywhere you look/read/ask in this hobby the answer/solution is readily available to all especially experienced Reefkeepers...... Instead you risked all the lives of the Fish you continued to drop into your Reeftank with known infestation just hoping for the best ??? Ultimately they paid the price not you, with there lives. It confuses and saddens me as to why at this day and age would any experienced Reefkeeper/Aquarist let this happen repeatedly.

NOW, you only have two options as a responsible Reefkeeper

#1 Remove from display and treat all Fish Cupramine or Hyposalinity for full dose/duration while running the Display Fallow for 8-11 weeks.

#2 Take a break from the hobby until you are in a place where you can properly take care of these living animals. Not money related, just being responsible for the lives relying on you.

If this seems a little harsh, it was meant to be as these are living creatures that ought to be cherished and taken care of to the best of our abilities. There not disposable toys or pieces of Art. Like I first stated we all have made some mistakes, successful Reefkeepers learn from theirs some sooner than others but all eventually. Those who won't learn should do something else with less dire consequences.

____, Todd

thanks todd prob not gonna opt for the time out method but thanks for your imput

 

[Vmacisback]

First off before taking the Kid Gloves off here most of if not all of us here have paid the price for lack of patience and or taking chances in this hobby myself included. So obviously you had parasites in the old system known or otherwise ??? When you transferred all the Fish into the new system it stressed them to the point of an Ich outbreak which is not uncommon. At this point the gloves come off and will ask you why would you not have dealt with the issue at this time ??? A major pain to be certain but anywhere you look/read/ask in this hobby the answer/solution is readily available to all especially experienced Reefkeepers...... Instead you risked all the lives of the Fish you continued to drop into your Reeftank with known infestation just hoping for the best ??? Ultimately they paid the price not you, with there lives. It confuses and saddens me as to why at this day and age would any experienced Reefkeeper/Aquarist let this happen repeatedly.

NOW, you only have two options as a responsible Reefkeeper

#1 Remove from display and treat all Fish Cupramine or Hyposalinity for full dose/duration while running the Display Fallow for 8-11 weeks.

#2 Take a break from the hobby until you are in a place where you can properly take care of these living animals. Not money related, just being responsible for the lives relying on you.

If this seems a little harsh, it was meant to be as these are living creatures that ought to be cherished and taken care of to the best of our abilities. There not disposable toys or pieces of Art. Like I first stated we all have made some mistakes, successful Reefkeepers learn from theirs some sooner than others but all eventually. Those who won't learn should do something else with less dire consequences.

____, Todd

I love how people on forums like this love to play the teacher role and offer the "harsh" punishment of something gimme a break dude. Like im sure if I met you in person you would say the same thing to my face, doubtful. Did I make a mistake? yes but of course some one like Todd has to be there to make you feel like an idiot cause hees an expert right?

 

[Vmacisback]

share your experience on how to help with the issue on hand and leave it at that I am well aware they are living animals Todd.

 

[slojmn]

Remove all of your fish and pick one of the common treatments, copper, hypo, or tank transfer and leave your tank fallow for the prescribed amount of time. Ich will continue to affect any fish you put in your tank until you deal with the heart of the matter...a parasite that is multiplying by the thousands and taking out your fish. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[viedwards]

We learned the hard way too, with a velvet outbreak. The tank needs to go fallow for at least 8 weeks (10-12 is better), or the ich/velvet will continue to live in your tank and kill your fish. We set up a QT and treated the survivors with copper, and plan on treating all future fish with the same. It stinks going fishless for that long, but IMO it's the only way.

 

[ifarmer]

it's expensive to run a qt tank. sometimes qt tank are not appropriate size to house fish like tang(s), this would make the fish strest even more.
sometimes it's just easy just to bring the fish back to the LFS and give them the sick fish rather to deal with it.

 

[Vmacisback]

We learned the hard way too, with a velvet outbreak. The tank needs to go fallow for at least 8 weeks (10-12 is better), or the ich/velvet will continue to live in your tank and kill your fish. We set up a QT and treated the survivors with copper, and plan on treating all future fish with the same. It stinks going fishless for that long, but IMO it's the only way.

Yea I have a qt running in my garage I and may setup another to house all the fish but I will definitely go fallow for 8-11weeks. Thanks for the help.

 

[Vmacisback]

Remove all of your fish and pick one of the common treatments, copper, hypo, or tank transfer and leave your tank fallow for the prescribed amount of time. Ich will continue to affect any fish you put in your tank until you deal with the heart of the matter...a parasite that is multiplying by the thousands and taking out your fish. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Will do, I have a qt currently setup and gonna spend some time each day pulling fish out. Then fallow for 8-11 weeks. Thanks for the help.

 

[TJ's Reef]

I and many other would be willing to help you through a proper treatment regiment and the ups & downs of fallow period on your display. And like it or not this is exactly how I would be in person, straight and to the point. I acknowledged that we most all have made this mistake myself included. The big difference in (at least what I'm reading within your OP) was that we stopped committing new fish to same outcome and started/changed to better QT procedures. If you were closer I'd be more than happy to personally give you help to task at hand, its a big and less than fun chore you're about to begin.

I just reread your OP and for some reason had thought you originally stated that you were long term Reefkeeper, I was wrong and apologize if you are relatively new to the game and may not have the experience or been properly informed before. I am no Expert as do not believe anyone will ever truly be. Though I do have 32 years of Reefkeeping experience under my belt, mostly but not all successful years.

So moving forward here, do you have adequate QT space and necessary equipment for remaining Fish #1 and do you have any experience medicating with Copper such as Cupramine ? I we would be happy to walk you through it once we know where your at with beginning a QT procedure.

Cheers, Todd

 

[rworegon]

it's expensive to run a qt tank. sometimes qt tank are not appropriate size to house fish like tang(s), this would make the fish strest even more.
sometimes it's just easy just to bring the fish back to the LFS and give them the sick fish rather to deal with it.

I have to disagree with you on QT being expensive. Not only does the set up not have to be expensive or complicated but the savings in fish loss and stress is unmeasurable. This is a cut and paste of a thread I posted on my local board when I went through a similar experience.

As some of you kniow I recently experienced a major loss of fish in both my FOWLR tank, completely wiped out, and my reef, lost three of my fish. I am fully aware that it was my own fault for not having an adequate quarantine system. I was using a 10 gal tank, a heater and a small HOB filter. Now this has worked fine for single small fish, but in this case I put a Lavender tang and an Auriga Butterflyfish in this 10 gal. I was having fits with Nitrites and Ammonia despite daily water changes. The tank simply didn't have the water capacity to handle two fish, much less two fish of this size. So after only two weeks in QT, both were looking healthy and eating well, they both went into their respective tanks. The Butterfly went in to the FOWLR and the tang went into the reef. Needless to say this was way too soon and a catastrophic loss followed. Lesson learned.

I hear too many people post that they don't have QT systems. Some think they can't afford it, others just don't want to hassle with it. In my case I just didn't go big enough for long enough. If I think about what was lost, a QT setup of several hundred dollars would have saved me money, not to mention the frustration and heartache I've gone through these last couple of weeks.

So, just to show what can be done, if you look around, Here is what I have come up with:

qt tank by rworegon, on Flickr

The tank is an acrylic 62 gal, not pristine, has some scratches, isn't reef ready, but it holds water and has enough room for even a tang to exercise a bit. $10.00 from a fellow club member who had it sitting around in their garage.
The stand is made up of two end tables purchased from goodwill. $12.00.
The filter is a canister I had in sitting in the garage from my old 55gal. Glad now that I didn't get rid of it. $0.00
The heater is a spare I've had sitting around also. $0.00
PCV fittings, had em sitting around in the garage. $0.00

So for $22.00 I have a 4ft long 62 gal quarantine system that is now housing all the fish from my reef that survived. I am medicating and will keep them there for about 8 weeks while the reef goes fallow.

Never say you can't afford a Quarantine tank. And no matter where you get your fish from, please use it.

 

[Vmacisback]

I have to disagree with you on QT being expensive. Not only does the set up not have to be expensive or complicated but the savings in fish loss and stress is unmeasurable. This is a cut and paste of a thread I posted on my local board when I went through a similar experience.

As some of you kniow I recently experienced a major loss of fish in both my FOWLR tank, completely wiped out, and my reef, lost three of my fish. I am fully aware that it was my own fault for not having an adequate quarantine system. I was using a 10 gal tank, a heater and a small HOB filter. Now this has worked fine for single small fish, but in this case I put a Lavender tang and an Auriga Butterflyfish in this 10 gal. I was having fits with Nitrites and Ammonia despite daily water changes. The tank simply didn't have the water capacity to handle two fish, much less two fish of this size. So after only two weeks in QT, both were looking healthy and eating well, they both went into their respective tanks. The Butterfly went in to the FOWLR and the tang went into the reef. Needless to say this was way too soon and a catastrophic loss followed. Lesson learned.

I hear too many people post that they don't have QT systems. Some think they can't afford it, others just don't want to hassle with it. In my case I just didn't go big enough for long enough. If I think about what was lost, a QT setup of several hundred dollars would have saved me money, not to mention the frustration and heartache I've gone through these last couple of weeks.

So, just to show what can be done, if you look around, Here is what I have come up with:

qt tank by rworegon, on Flickr

The tank is an acrylic 62 gal, not pristine, has some scratches, isn't reef ready, but it holds water and has enough room for even a tang to exercise a bit. $10.00 from a fellow club member who had it sitting around in their garage.
The stand is made up of two end tables purchased from goodwill. $12.00.
The filter is a canister I had in sitting in the garage from my old 55gal. Glad now that I didn't get rid of it. $0.00
The heater is a spare I've had sitting around also. $0.00
PCV fittings, had em sitting around in the garage. $0.00

So for $22.00 I have a 4ft long 62 gal quarantine system that is now housing all the fish from my reef that survived. I am medicating and will keep them there for about 8 weeks while the reef goes fallow.

Never say you can't afford a Quarantine tank. And no matter where you get your fish from, please use it.

I agree, if youve been in this hobby long enough you usually have all you need laying around to make something work.

 

[Vmacisback]

I and many other would be willing to help you through a proper treatment regiment and the ups & downs of fallow period on your display. And like it or not this is exactly how I would be in person, straight and to the point. I acknowledged that we most all have made this mistake myself included. The big difference in (at least what I'm reading within your OP) was that we stopped committing new fish to same outcome and started/changed to better QT procedures. If you were closer I'd be more than happy to personally give you help to task at hand, its a big and less than fun chore you're about to begin.

I just reread your OP and for some reason had thought you originally stated that you were long term Reefkeeper, I was wrong and apologize if you are relatively new to the game and may not have the experience or been properly informed before. I am no Expert as do not believe anyone will ever truly be. Though I do have 32 years of Reefkeeping experience under my belt, mostly but not all successful years.

So moving forward here, do you have adequate QT space and necessary equipment for remaining Fish #1 and do you have any experience medicating with Copper such as Cupramine ? I we would be happy to walk you through it once we know where your at with beginning a QT procedure.

Cheers, Todd

Yea i have all I need to Todd i have a qt up and running. Gonna put them through copper and prazipro. Any other suggestions?