This is my point - but you said it much more concisely. When I read "all" - I take it for what was said "all" - which to my thinking is impossible. I personally (perhaps I'm stupid) - don't get terms like 'immune tank' because there is no such thing that makes sense.
I remember you saying how you put fish 'covered in parasites' into your tank and they did fine. Others talk about putting fish into their tank with CI, and its gone in a day or 2. Those anecdotes scientifically do not make any sense.
Well - I'm a scientist. And - I disagree. Having a 50 year old tank does not mean you have an 'immune tank'. It means you have an old tank - and you worked hard on it. (which is why I said earlier - that its testimony to you as an aquarist - which I meant as a compliment)
It implies to me that most people don't keep tanks for 50 years.
The fact is, many people have successful tanks. They do not have access to sea water, etc. I agree - feeding fish, lowering stress etc are all important. Which point am I missing? My point is that most of your comments relate to quarantine - and its negative effects. I do not think that giving a fish prazipro is going to cause it long-term problems. I do not think that doing TTM is going to hurt a fish long-term. I do not think 'spawning' is a big deal - lots of people don't have 2 fish of the same type. If you have 2 - they will spawn. There is a lot of information out there - as @Lasse said about the cryptocaryon vaccine - not being effective because it is strain specific.
Which has me wondering ... How long does it take for cryptocaryon resistance to develop?
It doesn't matter as long as some of those parasites are living with the fish like they are supposed to.
Exactly which is why I advocate the diet I mentioned 1,000 times and the aquascape like I also keep mentioning
No, that is not the implication. Newly introduced fish can and do die like in any tank. They may have a better chance in a natural tank than a bare quarantine tank, but they can still die.
Mine is.
Most times they do and I posted that numerous times over decades
Are you a fish scientist?
I only live near the sea for the last 3 years. For the first 47 years of my tanks life I only used a very little real salt water.
I disagree with all of this. All female fish in the sea fill with eggs, male or not.
Have you any investigations showing this. I have seen articles that claim that the breakdown process is done in the MFO system and that metabolites of the drug can be seen as bioaccumulating compounds. In EU - Praziquantel is not allowed in fish farming for human consumption - as I remember it. I have also seen that the compound will be biological broken down - probably by bacteria - in aquarium. Nothing say anything of metabolites here. Please see this article
I would say - based on the 'life cycle' that after 24-36 hours you could say they 'survived' but I don't think you can say they are cured (because as you know, CI falls off the fish all the time). Second. If you put a fish with CI in your tank - I don't quite understand what you could do in 24-36 hours that would make an overall difference in survival.
The article was interesting. It suggested that after oral and a high concentration bath - that there was no/little evidence that prazipro remains concentrated in the fish. So I guess your article kind of proved what I suggested?
@Paul B, Then this one of the 'missing pieces of the puzzle' I was asking for. I believe that many people read your, @Lasse 's and @atoll 's posts and assume that you are saying that by some process, even diseased fish added to the tank do not die.
Sorry but you seem to miss my point completely. Not only do the spots fall of the infected fish which as you know means the cysts drop to the bottom where they release hundreds of new spores to infect fish in fish that arent immune tanks. Not only do those fish not get reinfected none of the existing fish get infected either, they appear to be immune to the newly introduced itch. If you have another theory then let's hear it as it's the best I can come up with.
I have had many tanks with CI in the past. You're absolutely correct, as I've said previously, many fish survive and do fine. Occasionally popping up with a spot or two over months and months. The presumption would be that they have developed immunity - or the original strain weakens over time.
I don't know about 'the most common' reason for quitting. But I'm sure its possible. The shear number of people who do not QT here is actually surprising to me. I don't quite know what it is, but as said previously, to me there has to be a missing piece.
I think it's a few things, I responded to a page about culturing Phyto plankton, they all were keeping it sterile, I use old tank water Mercer fertilizer and a light grow thick green water. They all said don't you have other thing growing in there, yeah I do but it's easy and works have huge pods in the fuge. I think keeping as much bacteria in they system is important, the ocean is not clean
My stocking density has always been on the high side, I currently have
I think thats a relatively low stocking density considering the size of the tank, and the size of the fish (except the tangs). Also - just thought of this - the smaller the fish, the smaller the CI burden throughout the tank.
That´s how must people will understand that article - but - it is always a but - these articles only deal with the original substances and knowing that MFO is involved in fish and that the breakdown in water probably are done by bacteria rise the question of metabolites. As an example - metallic mercury is not of concern for us but when it comes out in nature - bacteria convert it into Methylmercury that can be bioaccumulated. If you try to search for metallic mercury in sediment - you can think it is of no concern because it is not there - but its metabolite is - and it is deadly for us.
24x an average of say 3" = 72" of fish in 130 gallons and you think that's low density. I doubt people would agree with you there but if you think so.
