Fish list

[Nathan Milender]

Initial setup of my 125 had no leaks other than one union needed to be tightened. Working on aquascape and getting excited about the fish plan. Took the family to the LFS and got a list of what they are interested in. Total plan is a 125 6' by 18", older model with two overflow towers. 40 gallon sump. First two chambers are equal size including depth, last chamber barely fits my return pump. Planing chaetoe with kessil grow light in first chamber plus some left over marine pure and possibly left over live rock (I have a ton it). Chamber will also double as pod and plankton farm if I get it to work. Second chamber has reef octopus 200int regal on a false bottom containing 3 inches of marine pure because I could not think of anything else to do with that spot. Have an apex El, two wavs. Currently two maxspect razor 120w (may need a third light later but since I currently have no coral, it can wait). I do plan to put in a sand bed as I am excited about many things that like sand. QT is a 20 long with some pvc fittings inside, one powerhead, one sponge filter. Mesh lid for DT, some type lid not purchased yet for QT.

Overall plan is go with softer and large polyp corals. May do some SPS later if the tank looks appropriate for it. Have not decided on kalk vs 2 part vs none as I am not sure what the Ca consumption will end up being. I have not figured out which those are and I am currently working on that plan. I am not looking for anything that does not use photosynthesis, in other words obligate eaters. More than happy to stick with 'easy' aquacultured corals as I think all of them are pretty cool.

Fish thoughts: Overall I want more smaller fish, prefer fish with attitude that watch the tank and outside tank.

schooling fish: A small school 3-5. Was thinking chromis or 3 pajama cardinals with a bengai
purple firefish
sixline wrasse
Mexican Barnacle blenny (this one is really not negotiable)
Jawfish (not sure which, plan on providing a deeper section of sand, would take suggestions on the smallest variety)
Clownfish- not tomato, ocellaris for fear of aggression
Seahorse (family request, nort sure if it is feasible)
Dragonet- Mandarin vs ruby, both?
Blennies- I really like these fish, looking for suggestions on smaller easy to get along with other fish variety, liked the kamohara. I would be really interested in knowing how many different types I could mix in.
Dwarf angel- I have always liked the fire one
Hawkfish- I like these but have been reading differing opinions on their compatibility with shrimp, if it's one hawk or shrimp, I will choose shrimp.
Valentin puffer- would this work once the corals get going? Do they release toxins? I have read some threads that suggest they do not but I know cowfish can and are in the same family.

Inverts:
Cleaner shrimp-2-3
other shrimp? Looking for suggestions, I have heard the banded are too aggressive but would also consider adding a fireshrimp. If I could have a dozen different shrimp I would.
Tuxedo urchin
Feather duster- at least one (wife request)
Snails- algae eater only, needs to be able to flip itself over. Suggestions? Also, when to add, wait for algae?
Hermits- Compatible with snails? Thinking of putting in 2-3 of the blue legs
One clam- have not researched yet, may switch for a scallop.

Anyone willing give me your thoughts including, too much, can do more, you are crazy, consider this variety etc. I am also interested in suggestions on what to start with and what to end with to ensure everyone getting along.

 

[Coralreefer1]

Hawkfish and inverts not good.
Puffer and corals and inverts not good.
Fire fish are very skiddish and notorious jumpers...
Clownfish are related to Damselfish and all are territorial. Care would need to be addressed with when you would be adding one of these to your tanks bioload. The most aggressive fish should be added last into your tank to reduce aggression.
Seahorses not in a tank specifically designed for them...not good.
Centropyge Angels are a hit or miss in a reef tank. Care and watchful eye would have to be initiated.
Dragonets and Mandarins not advisable in a newly established tank due to availability or lack thereof of live pods to feed upon and survive.
Tridacna Clam probably not a good choice with a novice aquarist. Scallops have an even worse survival rate than say a Derasa or Squamosa Clam. I would hold off on obtaining one of these inverts.
As for the other fish and inverts, they should work for you in the size tank you have, size of the fish and compatibility with each other. Plus they are reef safe with any type of coral. Fire, Cleaner and Peppermint Shrimp would work in any number. Pistol Shrimp are nice as is the Purple Lobster which I have in my tank. Do one or the other when it comes to potentially adding one of these.
Hope this helps and remember that any livestock titled as reef safe is not guaranteed of being 100% reef safe. Moreover, their are times when a fish, labeled as not reef safe, has been able to coexist in a reef tank.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Hawkfish and inverts not good.
Puffer and corals and inverts not good.
Fire fish are very skiddish and notorious jumpers...
Clownfish are related to Damselfish and all are territorial. Care would need to be addressed with when you would be adding one of these to your tanks bioload. The most aggressive fish should be added last into your tank to reduce aggression.
Seahorses not in a tank specifically designed for them...not good.
Centropyge Angels are a hit or miss in a reef tank. Care and watchful eye would have to be initiated.
Dragonets and Mandarins not advisable in a newly established tank due to availability or lack thereof of live pods to feed upon and survive.
Tridacna Clam probably not a good choice with a novice aquarist. Scallops have an even worse survival rate than say a Derasa or Squamosa Clam. I would hold off on obtaining one of these inverts.
As for the other fish and inverts, they should work for you in the size tank you have, size of the fish and compatibility with each other. Plus they are reef safe with any type of coral. Fire, Cleaner and Peppermint Shrimp would work in any number. Pistol Shrimp are nice as is the Purple Lobster which I have in my tank. Do one or the other when it comes to potentially adding one of these.
Hope this helps and remember that any livestock titled as reef safe is not guaranteed of being 100% reef safe. Moreover, their are times when a fish, labeled as not reef safe, has been able to coexist in a reef tank.

Thanks for the reply. I agree, some of these seem questionable but reports vary. I was not planning on adding all of this in one shot. Mostly looking at the next 1-2years, what is my plan what can I add to start? Do I start with firefish, blennys, cardinals? Dragonets wait until I have the plankton farm producing. I was dubious about the saddle puffer, since it is a puffer. It seems to get different reviews than the other puffers as though it is somehow safer. It does seem to stay small. If it has the curiosity of the larger puffers it could be cool. Regardless it would have to be later in the additions if done at all.
I will look into the purple lobster. It is hard for me to imagine any lobster as reef safe but I am unfamiliar with that one. Any shrimp is on the table. The pistol shrimp seem small and I was worried about any near compatibility of some fish being lost as a small shrimp is for sure a meal. Angel, if done will be towards the end. Clowns are for the wife and kids, will only be ocellaris if I do them. I have had them before and they seemed to get picked on if they came out of the anemone. It was a damsel tank though, and things were really staked out.

 

[Sailingeric]

I have a valentini puffer, reef and cuc safe. She is very fun to watch and they small some of the other puffers out there.

 

[Jholli90]

If you are looking for shrimp, check out the camel shrimp. I plan on getting a few when my LFS gets them in.

 

[Nathan Milender]

I have a valentini puffer, reef and cuc safe. She is very fun to watch and they small some of the other puffers out there.

Good to hear, they do seem very cool

 

[Nathan Milender]

If you are looking for shrimp, check out the camel shrimp. I plan on getting a few when my LFS gets them in.

ok, I will put it on the list of shrimp to look at

 

[Nathan Milender]

If you are looking for shrimp, check out the camel shrimp. I plan on getting a few when my LFS gets them in.

I looked at them, they are cool, I thought they were called candy shrimp for some reason. Someday I will do the work to learn aquarium taxonomy.

 

[Jholli90]

I looked at them, they are cool, I thought they were called candy shrimp for some reason. Someday I will do the work to learn aquarium taxonomy.

I mostly only know the names of things I want/ like. I'm working on it.

 

[Oscaror]

I looked at them, they are cool, I thought they were called candy shrimp for some reason. Someday I will do the work to learn aquarium taxonomy.

If you want a reef do NOT get camel shrimp, if you want something that looks similar you can get peppermint shrimp which are known to be better reef inhabitants (although from time to time there are complaints). Camel shrimp are actually often mislabeled as peppermint shrimp so be careful! Good luck with your build

 

[Nathan Milender]

T

If you want a reef do NOT get camel shrimp, if you want something that looks similar you can get peppermint shrimp which are known to be better reef inhabitants (although from time to time there are complaints). Camel shrimp are actually often mislabeled as peppermint shrimp so be careful! Good luck with your build

Thanks for the tip, as a whole the hobby seems to need to get more specific on names and learning identifying taxonomy.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Ok, for anyone listening to my rambling. Hawkfish seem iffy as cool as they are. What do people think about the geometric perchlet? Seems more invert friendly, but how will it do in a tank full of blennies and gobies? I see some places list it as semi-aggressive against bottom dwellers.

 

[Seawitch]

Hi Nathan:

I'd like to share a few thoughts. I agree with what Coralreefer1 said.

I'm mainly preoccupied with the mandarin because this is a fish I'd like to have some day. These are often very difficult to feed and support in a new aquarium, so I wouldn't consider it for at least a year. Unless you can train yours to eat something else, they need a steady stream of copepods, and some of the other fish in your list may compete with them for copepods and be more efficient at it. I'm specifically thinking the wrasse and the barnacle blenny.

Also, seahorses have all kinds of special requirements and should probably not be in a community DT. One thing you might consider is a standalone refugium of 30-40 gallons just with macroalgae. You could possibly put a seahorse or 2 in there if the flow is slow, the light is dim, and there's nothing else to bother them. I'm just thinking out loud. That would increase your pod production for the pod eaters and offer a peaceful place for a seahorse.

 

[Oscaror]

Hi Nathan:

I'd like to share a few thoughts. I agree with what Coralreefer1 said.

I'm mainly preoccupied with the mandarin because this is a fish I'd like to have some day. These are often very difficult to feed and support in a new aquarium, so I wouldn't consider it for at least a year. Unless you can train yours to eat something else, they need a steady stream of copepods, and some of the other fish in your list may compete with them for copepods and be more efficient at it. I'm specifically thinking the wrasse and the barnacle blenny.

Also, seahorses have all kinds of special requirements and should probably not be in a community DT. One thing you might consider is a standalone refugium of 30-40 gallons just with macroalgae. You could possibly put a seahorse or 2 in there if the flow is slow, the light is dim, and there's nothing else to bother them. I'm just thinking out loud. That would increase your pod production for the pod eaters and offer a peaceful place for a seahorse.

Refugium seahorses are a topic occasionally brought up by people but there's one major flaw which is the fact that seahorses require colder than reef water to avoid getting bacterial infections, plus why would you want to hide such a beautiful animal

 

[Seawitch]

Refugium seahorses are a topic occasionally brought up by people but there's one major flaw which is the fact that seahorses require colder than reef water to avoid getting bacterial infections, plus why would you want to hide such a beautiful animal

You're absolutely right. So, scratch that idea. If the OP wants seahorses, then he'll need a separate system. I'm not an expert on seahorses, obviously. I don't want to raise them.

 

[stevef22]

Most people would have seahorses in a separate seahorse tank due to the lower water temp needed. They will be very disease prone in the typical 78 degree reef.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Hi Nathan:

I'd like to share a few thoughts. I agree with what Coralreefer1 said.

I'm mainly preoccupied with the mandarin because this is a fish I'd like to have some day. These are often very difficult to feed and support in a new aquarium, so I wouldn't consider it for at least a year. Unless you can train yours to eat something else, they need a steady stream of copepods, and some of the other fish in your list may compete with them for copepods and be more efficient at it. I'm specifically thinking the wrasse and the barnacle blenny.

Also, seahorses have all kinds of special requirements and should probably not be in a community DT. One thing you might consider is a standalone refugium of 30-40 gallons just with macroalgae. You could possibly put a seahorse or 2 in there if the flow is slow, the light is dim, and there's nothing else to bother them. I'm just thinking out loud. That would increase your pod production for the pod eaters and offer a peaceful place for a seahorse.

Thanks for the reply, I have a spare 29 gallon tank. I might set that up for some of the family requests and do fish only to accommodate. I want to keep the wife an kids invested in the project but I agree there are limits to what one system can do.
Thanks for the heads up on the pods. I have considered this. Mandarin, and any other obligate scavengers are going to be last introductions. I have not set it up yet, but I will also have a dedicated phyto and pod farm to feed many of these animals. Recognizing the need for high live food is why I am considering few to none sps as no matter what I do this will likely be a high nutrient tank.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Refugium seahorses are a topic occasionally brought up by people but there's one major flaw which is the fact that seahorses require colder than reef water to avoid getting bacterial infections, plus why would you want to hide such a beautiful animal

I did not know they needed colder water. I used to see them in shallows doing solo dives on Caribbean back reefs. It is true though that generally you would see the large ones deeper on the shelves. Temperature incompatibility is a deal breaker, water cannot be two temps at the same time. Personally, I am hoping to be able to provide good reasons to my family for not getting them as I really do not want them. I like the spunkier fish that watch and react. Seahorses are so "Don't notice me, just a twig, nope, you didn't see me eat that plankton, move along". When I would see them while diving I would often have to watch them for a few minutes to see if they were alive.

 

[BigJim]

I like several of your choices, but I think you might want to rethink some others. This is only my opinion and food for thought. I realize the need to keep the family happy.

The chromis are known to kill each other off until you end up with only one. The Cardinals don't really fall into the fish with attitude criteria you seek. They tend to hover in one spot all day. I love ocelllaris clowns and I think every reef tank needs a pair. That said, they typically pick a territory and stay there most of the time. I would stick with a Flame Hawkfish if you really want a hawkfish. They are less aggressive than the others and more suitable for a reef tank.

I have a 155 gallon (72" x 24" x 21") and my smaller fish can get lost in such a large tank. I had a Starry Blenny and also have a Randall's Assessor. They are tough to spot in my tank. Ii would recommend a few more fish that are active swimmers. Maybe a wrasse or two if you have a cover on the tank. Some wrasses also require sand.

I would also recommend a couple fish that help control algae. You already have blennies on the list, so make sure to choose one that eats algae. I would recommend one of the bristletooth tangs also. They are active swimmers and help control algae.

Hopefully you don't think I am being overly critical. I just want you and you family to have a tank that is enjoyable to watch. Good luck with the new tank!

 

[Nathan Milender]

I like several of your choices, but I think you might want to rethink some others. This is only my opinion and food for thought. I realize the need to keep the family happy.

The chromis are known to kill each other off until you end up with only one. The Cardinals don't really fall into the fish with attitude criteria you seek. They tend to hover in one spot all day. I love ocelllaris clowns and I think every reef tank needs a pair. That said, they typically pick a territory and stay there most of the time. I would stick with a Flame Hawkfish if you really want a hawkfish. They are less aggressive than the others and more suitable for a reef tank.

I have a 155 gallon (72" x 24" x 21") and my smaller fish can get lost in such a large tank. I had a Starry Blenny and also have a Randall's Assessor. They are tough to spot in my tank. Ii would recommend a few more fish that are active swimmers. Maybe a wrasse or two if you have a cover on the tank. Some wrasses also require sand.

I would also recommend a couple fish that help control algae. You already have blennies on the list, so make sure to choose one that eats algae. I would recommend one of the bristletooth tangs also. They are active swimmers and help control algae.

Hopefully you don't think I am being overly critical. I just want you and you family to have a tank that is enjoyable to watch. Good luck with the new tank!

First off, you are not being critical. The whole point of this thread is to discuss these options so I can think hard before actually getting something I regret or kill. That was a good response. Last time I had an aquarium there was no internet blog so it has been overwhelming reading everything and trying to sift truth from thought based on one limited experience. I am really trying to capitalize on available experience and use this platform. If everyone agrees nonstop there is no progress.

For oscelleris, I agree with you. I am not huge fan in that they do not excite me much but the kids think they are awesome. It is a recognizable fish that most people enjoy and I can get them captive bred. The last time I had a couple they stayed in a condylactus (pink tip anenome) and didn't bother anyone. That was an entire tank of damsels though and top dog was a black and white. Everyone had a spot and feeding time was entertaining. As I read threads it seems that all damsels (including chromis) have got a rep for being very aggressive. I would hate for the oscellaris to start taking out my favorite blenny or goby.

It does not bother me to have some hidden fish. In my mind it is just more exciting when I do see them and if I like them and they are small I can always get more than one. I have had some thoughts about over competition for the plankton. Plan is to go slow with the obligate scavengers and see how it goes with the supply I can make.

That being said, there is a large swim area in the tank, and something needs to use it. Chromis and cardinals were a thought just because they school and tend to hang out in the water column. I am totally open to ideas. For some reason I have never been excited about tangs, I have no idea why. If the only reason I was going to add a tang was their ability to eat algae I think I would lean towards invertebrates to do the job first. Crabs, shrimp, snails, and urchins interest me more. I realize this is not the norm. Perhaps a butterfly fish would suffice as the banded is cool, but again the idea of a school of small fish hanging in the high flow seems more interesting than one big fish. I have been considering the saddle (valentini) puffer as they are so curious and tend to be everywhere (again not an herbivore and possibly not reef or invert safe). A dwarf angel, flame or coral beauty would be cool but has the same problem. I cannot come up with a school of algae grazers. Ideas really welcome. There is no rush on getting anything as the tank is not processing 0.5 ppm of ammonia in even three days yet.

What I like about the hawkfish is the way it lurks. I was worried about it with inverts so I was leaning towards the longnose with the smaller mouth. The perchlet (which I believe is an anthia) is very similar in behavior and seems to not have that reputation. Both would make me happy, I have just never seen a perchlet in person and have no idea if the risk is any different.

The last problem is of course which fish goes in first? That will have to be figured our soon. Thanks again for the thoughts.