Fish QT question

[coral_menagerie]

I have been quarantining 2 blue face angels for the past 3 weeks. The first week I just observed and concentrated on getting them to eat. Then I started with Prazipro for 5 days, ran carbon for a day, then Prazipro for 5 more days, and carbon for the past couple of days. During the last treatment of Prazipro one of the angels showed one black and one white "growth" on its dorsal fin. The white is most probably ich, but not sure what the black is. I am planning to use Cupramine to treat for 14 days.

Details of QT:
The QT tank is a 20 gallon, about an inch of live sand, about 1/4 full of live rock, small power head, large airstone, and Marineland C-220 canister filter. The sand and rock came from my DT system and have been in there for many years.

The fish are small. One is juvenile Blue Face Angel about an 1 to 1 1/4 inches, the other is small juvenile changing Blue Face Angel about 2 to 2 1/2 inches. The larger one is the one with the spots. Both fish have been eating very well and appear to be healthy other than the spots on the one.

I am wondering 1) what the black growth is (looks like a black ich spot), 2) what maintenance do I do for 14 days. Since I will not be running carbon during this treatment. What precautions should I take so the water parameters stay within range? Will I need to add more Cupramine during this period? I have heard that the rock and sand can absorb some of the copper.

I have not had much experience with quarantining fish. Any other relevant suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Lastly, I would like to eventually return the sand and rock to my display system. What can I do to clean the copper from it? I do not want to hurt any of the inverts or corals in that system. Or is returning the sand and rock not an option?

Thanks to all!

John

 

[kevinsmixed90]

John, this is only my experience with QT. the tank should be bare so as not to absorb any meds and also makes it easier to clean uneaten foods and fish waste. I would be cautious about putting the sand and rock back into the DT. maybe if you filled the QT. tank with fresh water after your done with the angels and ran carbon in it for a few weeks but even then it might leach copper etc... back into display tank if you have one use a copper test kit before reuse in DT. hope this helps!

 

[ebushrow]

Hi John,
So here are my experiences with QT of fish. How I am not entirely sure what the black spots are on the fin of the 1 angel, I would suspect that the single white spot may be ich, however, ich is usually more widespread all over the fish. The copper treatment will help, there are some small but very important things to do when you use the copper treatment though. Pick up a API copper test kit, usually about 9.00 to test the levels every day. The copper will be absorbed into the sand and rock if it can be from my experience. The treatment level of copper must be consistent for the proper treatment (and effectiveness), the high level does the work and as the copper chelates or is absorbed (into the fish and sand and rock), the level will drop. Too much copper will kill a fish so this is important to monitor. Maybe an obvious thing to do is to remove the carbon (probably knew this but thought I would mention this). I personally do small 50% water changes every few days on my QT to prevent build-up of waste, etc. I just take the water out of my DT and add new to the DT (space out a single water change that way). Also, the fish may stop eating as well, so make sure they are Fat and Happy before you start, copper is very will known to suppress appetites, maybe do to the treatment itself, or how the fish feels during the treatment. If the fish become hard to feed make sure you add a appetite enhancer like garlic to the food and it will stimulate the feeding response (in many cases). As for the sand and rock, I would advise abgainst addng it back to your DT if you have corals or inverts. I am unaware of any method to clean the copper out of the rock and sand. Just like the copper will bond to the rock, it can leach back out into your display - not worth the risk - but someone else may be able to chime in on this. Hope this helps!

 

[Humblefish]

1) what the black growth is (looks like a black ich spot),

There is actually a disease called "black ich" - but it is “ich” in name only and is actually caused by an infestation of turbellarian flatworms. Below is a pic of a fish with black ich for comparison purposes.

2) what maintenance do I do for 14 days. Since I will not be running carbon during this treatment. What precautions should I take so the water parameters stay within range? Will I need to add more Cupramine during this period? I have heard that the rock and sand can absorb some of the copper.

As mentioned above, you are going to have a difficult time maintaining a stable copper concentration with rock/sand due to absorption. You said the white spot was a "growth on its dorsal fin"; this may not be ich at all but rather a virus called Lymphocystis. Can you post a pic of it?

Lastly, I would like to eventually return the sand and rock to my display system. What can I do to clean the copper from it? I do not want to hurt any of the inverts or corals in that system. Or is returning the sand and rock not an option?

It can be done but getting all the copper out of it is no easy task. You must first give the rock an "acid bath" using muriatic acid, followed up by soaking in bleach, and then letting it soak in RODI using a dechlorinator to get all the bleach out. Followed by letting it air dry for a week or longer.

 

[coral_menagerie]

I will try to get a picture later tonight.

 

[coral_menagerie]

The picture is not the best. he is kinda shy and he is quick! The two spot are right on top pretty close together. White spot on left, black spot on right behind the white spot.

 

[Humblefish]

I can't make out for sure what the black spot is, but it looks too large to be black ich. Possibly a bacterial infection, but could also just be a cut or bruise.

The white spot looks to be just Lymphocystis (more info below.)

Lymphocystis:

Symptoms - Lymphocystis appears as a white or beige colored cauliflower-like growth that usually starts on the fins and spines and sometimes spreads to the body. Initially it may be small (looks like ich), and then grows in size (which is how you know it’s not ich). Lympho is a virus that many fish carry for life. Fortunately, it is rarely fatal or even harmful to the fish, and symptoms will come and go.

Treatment options - No known cure or treatment exists. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and maintaining pristine water conditions may expedite the “going away” process.

 

[coral_menagerie]

Okay, I got the Nikon out. Here are some better pictures. Hopefully you could give me confirmation on what these are. I do not want to add Cupramine if I don't need to.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm leaning towards a slight bacterial infection. It's difficult to say for sure because he looks to be changing over into adult coloration. But this is definitely NOT something you can treat with Cupramine. I wouldn't even add antibiotics just yet. I would start soaking his food with vitamin supplements (ex: Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem) to give his immune system a boost to see if it can fight this off naturally.

If it starts looking worse, I would treat with this combination of meds: Furan-2, Seachem Kanaplex & Metroplex (or Metro-MS).

 

[coral_menagerie]

Great! Thanks for the reply. So far it is unchanged other than the smaller Blue Face has developed a spot. I have been adding garlic to their food and am waiting for the Selcon I purchased to arrive. I'll keep you posted.

John

 

[coral_menagerie]

@Humblefish: So its getting worse and it has spread to the small Blue face, although both fish are eating well. Can you explain what you mean by "treat with this combination of meds"? I have never used meds in any of my tanks, never had the need for it. Do you mean use them all at the same time but maybe at a smaller dosage? Or use one for full treatment then the next and so on until all the meds have been used?

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Humblefish]

@coral_menagerie Using Furan-2, Kanaplex & Metroplex (or Metro-MS) all together, at the same time, provides a very wide spectrum antibacterial mix. IME; if that combination of meds doesn't save a fish from a bacterial infection, nothing will. But you must dose the medication into the water directly (in a QT); not in your DT.