Fish struggling all of a sudden

[iceman14555]

Help!

My fish, a potter's angel, a royal Gramma, and two black snowflake clowns all of a sudden have labored breathing. The clowns and Gramma seem to be acting normally, just having labored breathing. The potter's angel is having more of an issue, he keeps laying on the sand bed, having very hard breathing. This all happened within a matter of about 30 to 45 minutes.

I haven't done anything out of the ordinary, I fed them and then did a small water change, then added my normal dosage of NoPox, PNS pro bio, and yelo sno. All dosages are well within safe limits. My tank is 40 gals. Nitrate and nitrite levels seem to be within normal limits along with salinity at 1.025.

 

[MnFish1]

Anything new added? Were the fish quarantined? Any spots, etc? What you're describing suggests a potential gill disease, low oxygen, or another toxin. I would suggest you put an airstone in the tank - as well as checking your parameters

 

[vetteguy53081]

Help!

My fish, a potter's angel, a royal Gramma, and two black snowflake clowns all of a sudden have labored breathing. The clowns and Gramma seem to be acting normally, just having labored breathing. The potter's angel is having more of an issue, he keeps laying on the sand bed, having very hard breathing. This all happened within a matter of about 30 to 45 minutes.

I haven't done anything out of the ordinary, I fed them and then did a small water change, then added my normal dosage of NoPox, PNS pro bio, and yelo sno. All dosages are well within safe limits. My tank is 40 gals. Nitrate and nitrite levels seem to be within normal limits along with salinity at 1.025.

two reasons they get this is water quality issue whether elevated ammonia or change in ph and low oxygen levels (check if temperature has risen)
Other would be disease such as velvet or flukes. You havent mentioned unusual behaviors. With flukes, gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects.
If velvet, you will see scratching body against hard objects. fish is lethargic, loss of appetite and weight loss, rapid, labored breathing, fins clamped against the body and even mucus around the gills

 

[iceman14555]

Anything new added? Were the fish quarantined? Any spots, etc? What you're describing suggests a potential gill disease, low oxygen, or another toxin. I would suggest you put an airstone in the tank - as well as checking your parameters

Newest thing would be the Gramma, the tank has been setup and running for about 4 years. The Potter's and Clowns have been in since the tank cycled. The Gramma is about a week in. I don't have an air stone available. Parameters seem within normal limits. All fish are from the same store, no spots on them, nothing out of the ordinary other than the breathing.

I had to leave the house for an appointment, but as I left the potter's angel seemed to perk up a little, still sitting on the sand and breathing hard, but not on his side anymore, now upright. He seems healthy otherwise, fat, good color, and nothing seen in his gills.

I also pointed my returns up a bit to create some more surface agitation and added some stress guard.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Newest thing would be the Gramma, the tank has been setup and running for about 4 years. The Potter's and Clowns have been in since the tank cycled. The Gramma is about a week in. I don't have an air stone available. Parameters seem within normal limits. All fish are from the same store, no spots on them, nothing out of the ordinary other than the breathing.

I had to leave the house for an appointment, but as I left the potter's angel seemed to perk up a little, still sitting on the sand and breathing hard, but not on his side anymore, now upright. He seems healthy otherwise, fat, good color, and nothing seen in his gills.

I also pointed my returns up a bit to create some more surface agitation and added some stress guard.

For further assessment, can you post a video of the fish under white light intensity as this is sort of guesswork on causes

 

[iceman14555]

two reasons they get this is water quality issue whether elevated ammonia or change in ph and low oxygen levels (check if temperature has risen)
Other would be disease such as velvet or flukes. You havent mentioned unusual behaviors. With flukes, gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects.
If velvet, you will see scratching body against hard objects. fish is lethargic, loss of appetite and weight loss, rapid, labored breathing, fins clamped against the body and even mucus around the gills

Not seeing any of these symptoms or behaviors, the only thing I can think of is a sudden drop in oxygen, but what would cause that on an established tank with no changes?

 

[iceman14555]

For further assessment, can you post a video of the fish under white light intensity as this is sort of guesswork on causes

I can after I get can home, if you saw my reply to MnFish I had to leave.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not seeing any of these symptoms or behaviors, the only thing I can think of is a sudden drop in oxygen, but what would cause that on an established tank with no changes?

Cause:
Increase in temperature
Elevated salinity making oxygen less soluble
gill flukes
lack of water movement

 

[iceman14555]

Cause:
Increase in temperature
Elevated salinity making oxygen less soluble
gill flukes
lack of water movement

Well, water is definitely flowing
Temp was at 78F when I left
Salinity was at 1.024-1.025 per my Hanna salinity tester

Unsure what to really look for when it comes to flukes, but I haven't seen any foreign objects in the gills of any of the fish and they aren't trying to beat their heads against the rocks.

I'm really at a loss, it's just so sudden. I really appreciate your help that you're providing.

 

[JayM]

Considering that all of your fish seem to be affected at the same time, my first thought is low o2 or high NH3.
I would imagine that disease would start with one and gradually spread to others.

 

[MnFish1]

Newest thing would be the Gramma, the tank has been setup and running for about 4 years. The Potter's and Clowns have been in since the tank cycled. The Gramma is about a week in. I don't have an air stone available. Parameters seem within normal limits. All fish are from the same store, no spots on them, nothing out of the ordinary other than the breathing.

I had to leave the house for an appointment, but as I left the potter's angel seemed to perk up a little, still sitting on the sand and breathing hard, but not on his side anymore, now upright. He seems healthy otherwise, fat, good color, and nothing seen in his gills.

I also pointed my returns up a bit to create some more surface agitation and added some stress guard.

I am going to guess this is going to be a disease such as velvet - if the gramma was not quarantined. BTW - did you check ammonia?

 

[iceman14555]

Considering that all of your fish seem to be affected at the same time, my first thought is low o2 or high NH3.
I would imagine that disease would start with one and gradually spread to others.

This is what I'm thinking based on my experience and what the others have mentioned. Do you think adding some water conditioner, such as prime or Hikari ultimate, might help? It's just odd that this would happen after a water change, that should lower Nitrates, nitrite, ECT. I use filtered natural seawater (nutri sea) and I've never had any issues with water quality.

 

[C_AWOL]

Adding water conditioners would lower the oxygen levels in the tank if that's the issue.
Frankly an airstone/upping surface agitation would be the best choice without seeing a video

 

[iceman14555]

I am going to guess this is going to be a disease such as velvet - if the gramma was not quarantined. BTW - did you check ammonia?

They aren't showing any of the symptoms of velvet that vetteguy mentioned, other than the labored breathing. I haven't checked ammonia yet, will have to wait tilli get back home. I also do not quarantine, never have. I know there are several schools of thought on this, but I tend to follow the one involving building up fish immunity systems through choosing healthy fish, good diet, vitamins, water quality, ECT. There's actually a really good article on the forums here about it. This approach has worked for years, for me.

 

[iceman14555]

Adding water conditioners would lower the oxygen levels in the tank if that's the issue.
Frankly an airstone/upping surface agitation would be the best choice without seeing a video

Well I did increase surface agitation. So there's that. My system is an AIO, and I do get a pretty good amount of oxygen in the system through the waterfall area in the back too.

 

[Pistondog]

Newest thing would be the Gramma, the tank has been setup and running for about 4 years. The Potter's and Clowns have been in since the tank cycled. The Gramma is about a week in. I don't have an air stone available. Parameters seem within normal limits. All fish are from the same store, no spots on them, nothing out of the ordinary other than the breathing.

I had to leave the house for an appointment, but as I left the potter's angel seemed to perk up a little, still sitting on the sand and breathing hard, but not on his side anymore, now upright. He seems healthy otherwise, fat, good color, and nothing seen in his gills.

I also pointed my returns up a bit to create some more surface agitation and added some stress guard.

Get a couple of battery airstones for power failures and emergency like this.
I have a waterbox aio and always run an airstone.

 

[C_AWOL]

Well I did increase surface agitation. So there's that. My system is an AIO, and I do get a pretty good amount of oxygen in the system through the waterfall area in the back too.

Only thing to do in that case is wait it out and see (assuming 0 ammonia) or do another water change incase its some accidental contaminant that got in (without additives since that could be what is reducing oxygen/causing problems)
I wouldn't assume the cascading water in the back would be sufficient (assuming it always did this) considering the sudden onset of this issue though.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Well, water is definitely flowing
Temp was at 78F when I left
Salinity was at 1.024-1.025 per my Hanna salinity tester

Unsure what to really look for when it comes to flukes, but I haven't seen any foreign objects in the gills of any of the fish and they aren't trying to beat their heads against the rocks.

I'm really at a loss, it's just so sudden. I really appreciate your help that you're providing.

As mentioned a few posts ago, With flukes, gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects.
Velvet would have likely infected all the fish by now and not my suspect

 

[iceman14555]

Only thing to do in that case is wait it out and see (assuming 0 ammonia) or do another water change incase its some accidental contaminant that got in (without additives since that could be what is reducing oxygen/causing problems)
I wouldn't assume the cascading water in the back would be sufficient (assuming it always did this) considering the sudden onset of this issue though.

The water has always cascaded. It's still quiet though. I'll post a video of everything when I get home. Shouldn't be too much longer

 

[iceman14555]

As mentioned a few posts ago, With flukes, gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects.
Velvet would have likely infected all the fish by now and not my suspect

Yeah not seeing any of that. I'll check again as soon as I'm home.