Fishless Cycle
- Thread starter DarrenCar
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homer1475
Figuring out the hobby one coral at a time.
I would tend to disagree.
My current DT I cycled with just pure ammonia(no bottled bacteria), and that indeed did take close to a month. I had an issue and needed a cycled tank in a hurry, used biospira and had a fully cycled tank in 4 days(that could process 2PPM ammonia in 24 hours).
Seems to be hit or miss.
There's also the possibility that the bacteria used in those arenot the right species and are very short lived so without adding more regularly the tank could cycle again until the naturally occurring bacteria populate Rte tank.
Thats just my option based on what I've seen and read.
Besides patience is a good thing to have in this hobby. And I prefer to know I have a fully cycled tank with a strong bacteria population.
There's also the possibility that the bacteria used in those arenot the right species and are very short lived so without adding more regularly the tank could cycle again until the naturally occurring bacteria populate Rte tank.
Thats just my option based on what I've seen and read.
Besides patience is a good thing to have in this hobby. And I prefer to know I have a fully cycled tank with a strong bacteria population.
ScottR
Surfing....
Not all bacteria are nitrifying. Best to add the bottled kind from a trusted company. Need to make sure proven strains populate your tank. Once ammonia is present the bacteria start breaking it down into nitrites (NO3) which are further broken down into nitrates (NO4) - which are much safer than the 2 former. This is the start of cycling. There are two types that include many strains - ammonia oxidizing bacteria for ammonia and nitrite oxidizing bacteria for nitrites.
Another way is to add something like live rock, live sand, or something from an established tank to help populate the bacteria. IME a cycle takes anywhere from 2 months (weak cycle but ok) to 4 months (for a solid system).
A test kit for NH3, NO3 and NO4 is crucial before adding livestock.
homer1475
Figuring out the hobby one coral at a time.
Where on earth are you guys cycling tanks that it takes 4 months? I've setup plenty of tanks(think I'm up to around 20 or so by now) and have never had a cycle take anywhere near that time, even on a 400G system(that took about 6 weeks).
With a 4 month cycle, no one would be in this hobby with todays society of instant gratification.
With a 4 month cycle, no one would be in this hobby with todays society of instant gratification.
ScottR
Surfing....
Depends on what you put in it.
homer1475
Figuring out the hobby one coral at a time.
At the 6 week mark on the 400G system, in went many SPS, many LPS, and about 20 fish. And to this day(about 8 years now), nothing has died because of the short(by your terms) cycle.
So what are you putting in a tank that it takes 4 months to cycle?
So what are you putting in a tank that it takes 4 months to cycle?
ScottR
Surfing....
Not me that takes 4 months but just going off common knowledge. When I set up a new tank, I use elements of an existing.
Say you use Rodi, dry rock and add ammonia and wait for the cycle. You test parameters at 3 month mark and they seem fine. You add 3 fish or so. Then the next day, you have an ammonia reading and NO3. Not uncommon. There’s more than one way to cycle. Not all are the same.
homer1475
Figuring out the hobby one coral at a time.
See theres the common problem, you don't just dump a huge bioload into a new tank, regardless of how you cycled it. And this is where most newbies run into problems. They think the tank is cycled, so they just dump in a huge bioload and over populate the tank without the bacteria needed to process the waste. Even at 4 months with nothing in the tank except waiting to cycle, you'll still get waxing and waning of the bacteria depending on bioload.
ScottR
Surfing....
This is where I was headed in my original comment. How many newbies have I seen on here buy 2 clownfish, 2 nems, a starfish and then they come on here because they’re all dying. Cycling is problem number one. Swinging parameters being another.
homer1475
Figuring out the hobby one coral at a time.
I see where your going with the 4 month comment now. All good and I would tend to agree with you now that you explained why the four month comment.
ScottR
Surfing....
Just trying to help someone get in the right place without rushing. I could set up a freshwater tank right now with tap water, an air stone and a cheap filter and all my fish would live. Do the same with SW and wake up to a jungle of hair algae and dead fish the next day. A bit of an exaggeration but not far off.
I just started my cycle with dr Tim's ammonia and dr Tim's notifying bacteria. Dumped the ammonia in first, 120 drops for 30 gal of water. Then dumped in the bacteria a little later in the day.
Checked my parameters last night and after 2 days ammonia is at 0, nitrite is at 1 and nitrate is 40 after one dose of ammonia. I'm still trying to figure out why nitrate climbed so high after 1 dose.
I also cured my rock for about 6 weeks which I seeded with dr Tim's bacteria.
Checked my parameters last night and after 2 days ammonia is at 0, nitrite is at 1 and nitrate is 40 after one dose of ammonia. I'm still trying to figure out why nitrate climbed so high after 1 dose.
I also cured my rock for about 6 weeks which I seeded with dr Tim's bacteria.
ccombs
Valuable Member
Lol, kinda got off track. Add the bacteria and and add 2ppm of ammonia. Dr. Tim's has 2 revisions, some take 1 drop/gallon, some take 4 drop/gallon. Whatever your bottle says is correct. Watch for an ammonia spike, then nitrite spike, then nitrate rise. I personally would add a lot of dr. tim's on the first day, then keep adding every day for the first month. Get another brand of nitrifying bacteria as well for some potential diversity (not proven, just anecdotal).
Once the parameters hit zero you can try again. You are looking for the ammonia to turn to nitrate in 24 hours.
This is not my preferred way to cycle a tank, but it will work and is one way to skin a cat.
Best of luck!
Edit- I realize in hindsight my post might cause some confusion. Dr. Tim's makes both an ammonia product and bacteria product. You want to dose the ammonia to 2ppm. In regards to bacteria, I recommend adding a lot the first day, then adding more bacteria every day. My post above unedited makes it look like I advocate constant additions of ammonia, this is not what I meant. Sorry for any confusion.
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MnFish1
10K Club member
There is a thread on here (@Dr. Reef) - that compares in a fairly scientific manner with multiple repeats that suggest that Fritz Turbo 900 can when dosed to the proper directions - lower ammonia from 8 ppm to 0 in 1.5 days. Some of the others need a carbon source - and then they also work.
I have never done a fishless cycle - I've added Bacteria (sometimes a bit more than the dose because im never sure exactly the tank volume - and added fish at the same time - with no problem. There is also the @Lasse method for starting a tank (which is close to mine) that is well described here.
Though I like the idea (seriously) that patience is valuable in this hobby - It always surprises me when someone says - I've had a tank in my living room for 3 months with just rock - I personally do not have that much patience. I tend to think that the more quickly you can cover the rock with 'living things' whether its coral or zoos or whatever, the more quickly you will not have diatoms, etc. IE the corals out compete the algae. But I have no complaint for those who do it another way - to each his own.
For the book nitrite is NO2 and nitrate is NO3.
It is easy to explain. All hobby nitrate tests I know about is based om the method that first reduce NO3 to NO2 and after that analyse the NO2 level. Your colour chart will after this translate the read NO2 into the orginal NO3 value. If you have NO2 already in the water (before the nitrate had been reduced to NO2) the NO3 test will give a false result. Your test show 40 ppm NO3 but its false - you probably have 0. But your NO2 level of 1 ppm will cause the NO3 test to show between 50 - 100 time more than the orginal value. IMO - it is total worthless to analyse NO3 before the tank is full cycled and there is no NO2 in the water.
Sincerely Lasse
