Fishless cycle

[Theolox]

I have a 50g AIO that I filled on Sunday and started cycling Monday with 9ml of FritzZyme and a 4oz bottle of Turbo Start 900.

24 hours
Ammonia = .15 - Salifert
Nitrite = 1.4 - Salifert
Nitrate = 27.4 - Hanna HR

I have been sick this week so I didn't test at 48 hours.

72 hours
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = I couldn't test because I threw away the old ammonia kit and got a new one and accidentally put the nitrite color card in the old kit in the trash.
Nitrate = 52.9

4 days
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = still can't test till I get a kit tomorrow
Nitrate = 51.2

Did my cycle really happen that fast? Shouldn't my nitrates be higher? Should I add more ammonia to see if the nitrifying bacteria is working? Should I add a flake or 2 of food instead? What % of water change should I be looking at to pull the nitrates back down? 50%, 75%?

My plan is to add pods first before I put any fish in so they can get established. After I do the water change, will the pods be enough to support the bacteria?

 

[KrisReef]

Do pods eat nitrate or bacteria?
The bacteria are present and cranking out nitrates like a newly cycled system. Phytoplankton will enjoy the nitrates if the lights are on.
A 50% water removal can remove half of the nitrates presuming the make-up is zero nitrates. 51/2= 25.5ppm after a 50% water change. If you remove 3/4 of the water and make up that leaves you with ~ 51/4= 13ppm nitrates.

If you do two 50% back to back water changes you again will end up with ~ 51/2/2= 13 ppm.

One 75% water change is the same as 2 back to back 50% water changes, unless you do them simultaneously back to back and remove 100% of the water and replace it with all new zero ppm water.

 

[Tamberav]

I have a 50g AIO that I filled on Sunday and started cycling Monday with 9ml of FritzZyme and a 4oz bottle of Turbo Start 900.

24 hours
Ammonia = .15 - Salifert
Nitrite = 1.4 - Salifert
Nitrate = 27.4 - Hanna HR

I have been sick this week so I didn't test at 48 hours.

72 hours
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = I couldn't test because I threw away the old ammonia kit and got a new one and accidentally put the nitrite color card in the old kit in the trash.
Nitrate = 52.9

4 days
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = still can't test till I get a kit tomorrow
Nitrate = 51.2

Did my cycle really happen that fast? Shouldn't my nitrates be higher? Should I add more ammonia to see if the nitrifying bacteria is working? Should I add a flake or 2 of food instead? What % of water change should I be looking at to pull the nitrates back down? 50%, 75%?

My plan is to add pods first before I put any fish in so they can get established. After I do the water change, will the pods be enough to support the bacteria?

Nitrite doesn't matter for saltwater... don't waste your money. It isn't toxic to saltwater fish.

Your ammonia isn't 0 yet but the bottled bacteria can be pretty potent... well some companies.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

My plan is to add pods first before I put any fish in so they can get established. After I do the water change, will the pods be enough to support the bacteria?

Ammonia will kill pods, so make sure it's zero first. Pods themselves won't produce a lot of waste but will certainly contribute to the bioload and help support your nitrifying bacteria population.

Remember that pods need something to eat, so until algae begins to grow, you'll need to feed the tank something.

Also when you are ready to add fish, remember that you should add slowly so the bacterial population can support the bioload increase. "Cycled" means cycled for the current amount of ammonia being produced.

FWIW, I think adding pods right away is a great way to proactively control algae as well as establish a food chain for future inhabitants.

Good luck!

 

[Brennin]

I have a 50g AIO that I filled on Sunday and started cycling Monday with 9ml of FritzZyme and a 4oz bottle of Turbo Start 900.

24 hours
Ammonia = .15 - Salifert
Nitrite = 1.4 - Salifert
Nitrate = 27.4 - Hanna HR

I have been sick this week so I didn't test at 48 hours.

72 hours
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = I couldn't test because I threw away the old ammonia kit and got a new one and accidentally put the nitrite color card in the old kit in the trash.
Nitrate = 52.9

4 days
Ammonia = .1
Nitrite = still can't test till I get a kit tomorrow
Nitrate = 51.2

Did my cycle really happen that fast? Shouldn't my nitrates be higher? Should I add more ammonia to see if the nitrifying bacteria is working? Should I add a flake or 2 of food instead? What % of water change should I be looking at to pull the nitrates back down? 50%, 75%?

My plan is to add pods first before I put any fish in so they can get established. After I do the water change, will the pods be enough to support the bacteria?

Personally I would wait longer until ammonia reads zero then dose some phytoplankton and pods. You can add a small fish at the same time if you want but don’t stock heavy for awhile.

 

[Theolox]

Nitrite doesn't matter for saltwater... don't waste your money. It isn't toxic to saltwater fish.

Your ammonia isn't 0 yet but the bottled bacteria can be pretty potent... well some companies.

I'm using a Salifert test and the two lowest choices are 0 and <.15 ppm. I honestly can't really detect any, but it's hard to tell. It's my understanding that there is always a little ammonia in the tank from the critters we keep which is the point of the nitrifying bacteria colony. I'm only testing for Nitrite right now to demonstrate that the ammonia is being processed as planned.

 

[Theolox]

Ammonia will kill pods, so make sure it's zero first. Pods themselves won't produce a lot of waste but will certainly contribute to the bioload and help support your nitrifying bacteria population.

Remember that pods need something to eat, so until algae begins to grow, you'll need to feed the tank something.

Also when you are ready to add fish, remember that you should add slowly so the bacterial population can support the bioload increase. "Cycled" means cycled for the current amount of ammonia being produced.

FWIW, I think adding pods right away is a great way to proactively control algae as well as establish a food chain for future inhabitants.

Good luck!

With the Salifert test, it's hard to determine if I have zero or <.15 since those are the two lowest options. It may well be zero. Also, It's my understanding that once I put critters in, there will always be a small amount of ammonia present. I plan to buy some phyto when I get the pods so that they have something to munch on.

This is my current ammonia test. Would you call this zero?

 

[REEFRIED!]

Yes I would call that zero. Also I have not cycled a tank in a long time, however 50+ nitrate seems a bit high to me?

 

[Theolox]

Yes I would call that zero. Also I have not cycled a tank in a long time, however 50+ nitrate seems a bit high to me?

Agreed. If it's finished cycling, I'll do a big water change to get the nitrates down.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

With the Salifert test, it's hard to determine if I have zero or <.15 since those are the two lowest options. It may well be zero. Also, It's my understanding that once I put critters in, there will always be a small amount of ammonia present. I plan to buy some phyto when I get the pods so that they have something to munch on.

This is my current ammonia test. Would you call this zero?

Absolutely!

 

[Theolox]

So I tested nitrites again, and they are at 1.4, ammonia is zero, and nitrate is 45.1. Am I stalled? Do I need to add more ammonia? Should I just give it more time?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

So I tested nitrites again, and they are at 1.4, ammonia is zero, and nitrate is 45.1. Am I stalled? Do I need to add more ammonia? Should I just give it more time?

Nitrites don't need to be measured as they are not toxic to SW fish like they are in freshwater.

Your tank is cycled. Do a water change to get the nitrates down and start adding critters

 

[Theolox]

Nitrites don't need to be measured as they are not toxic to SW fish like they are in freshwater.

Your tank is cycled. Do a water change to get the nitrates down and start adding critters

Maybe I have an incomplete understanding, but I thought that for the nitrogen cycle to be fully working, the ammonia had to convert to nitrite and the nitrite had to convert to nitrate. This is making me wonder if the tank is fully cycled since it is still not converting all the nitrite to nitrate?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Maybe I have an incomplete understanding, but I thought that for the nitrogen cycle to be fully working, the ammonia had to convert to nitrite and the nitrite had to convert to nitrate. This is making me wonder if the tank is fully cycled since it is still not converting all the nitrite to nitrate?

The cycle is ongoing, with ammo converting to nitrite and then to nitrate. The goal is to have enough nitrifying bacteria to eliminate ammonia quickly so it does not pose a threat to livestock. If you had no nitrates at all yet, that would be a problem since that would indicate an absence of the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates, but based on the high level of nitrates, you're fine there.

Once your ammonia is reduced to zero and you are producing nitrates, you're cycled. If you want to do a challenge, you can add an ammonia source (test should read between 1and 2) and see if it is eliminated in 24 hours.

Edit: I don't think the challenge is necessary, but if it gives you piece of mind it won't hurt anything

 

[Theolox]

The cycle is ongoing, with ammo converting to nitrite and then to nitrate. The goal is to have enough nitrifying bacteria to eliminate ammonia quickly so it does not pose a threat to livestock. If you had no nitrates at all yet, that would be a problem since that would indicate an absence of the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates, but based on the high level of nitrates, you're fine there.

Once your ammonia is reduced to zero and you are producing nitrates, you're cycled. If you want to do a challenge, you can add an ammonia source (test should read between 1and 2) and see if it is eliminated in 24 hours.

Edit: I don't think the challenge is necessary, but if it gives you piece of mind it won't hurt anything

So I did the challenge by adding 9ml ammonia to the tank. 30 hrs later, there was no ammonia, no appreciable rise in nitrites, and a huge bump in nitrates. I would like to see less nitrites, but it appears that the nitrifying bacteria is indeed working. See results below.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Great! Do a water change and start adding critters.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Great! Do a water change and start adding critters.

Oh, and raise your salinity to at least 1.025. 1.026 is better.

 

[Theolox]

Oh, and raise your salinity to at least 1.025. 1.026 is better.

It was originally 1.025, but I don't have the ATO dialed in where it needs to be yet so it dropped to 1.024 when a little too much RODI was added. I will replenish it when I do the water change. It concerns me that nitrites are still higher than I want them to be, but the nitrifying cycle certainly seems to be working. My next step is to add 1/2gal of pods to the tank to get it seeded before I add fish and corals.

 

[Reefer911]

Great thread! Answered a few questions I had and down I didn’t know I had!

 

[Theolox]

Oh, and raise your salinity to at least 1.025. 1.026 is better.

So in the interest of building the biome and experimenting a bit, I added 9ml more ammonia and then added 10ml of Microbacter 7 to add different strains of bacteria. My results below were 24 hours later. I think my nitrate is actually higher, but I think that's as high as the Hanna HR checker will go.