Flame Angefish Survival Rate

[mjreefs]

Hello all,

I’m currently eyeing on getting dwarf angelfish for my FOWLR. I’m thinking of getting a flame angelfish. Problem is, I haven’t successfully kept one. The last one probably died of velvet, I kept the angels at 0.35ppm Cupramine for 4 weeks (I think that’s where the problem was). It suddenly stopped eating in copper on the 3rd week and eventually died when I transferred to the DT within a week. I transferred it immediately after the 4th week thinking it was just copper’s effect, but it was actually due to disease. I’ll probably be getting one, but I’m worried this might go down as another unsuccessful attempt and bring the whole tank down again. This time, I’ll push for 0.5ppm Cupramine and of course the usual 2-dose prazipro. Also, if anyone must know, the tank has no chiller, so temps could get as high as 33-34 during the summer (I live in a tropical country btw). Is a flame angelfish feasible with my setup? And any tips to make sure it is disease free?

 

[Jase4224]

Those temps seem way too high.. if you’re tank gets too hot you need to fix that before adding anything. Also don’t have many other details about your tank such as size, tank mates etc.

I’ve read (Live Aquaria - flame Angelfish) that they are sensitive to copper.

I just purchased an Flame, Majestic and Coral beauty. No qt I put them into my display and they are eating mysis and pellets on day three. Nothing against qt but you must know what you are doing and watch ammonia/water quality closely. My LFS does this for me. The only time I’ve ever had disease or unexplained deaths was when I attempted qt for my previous tank it just didn’t work for me.

 

[mjreefs]

Those temps seem way too high.. if you’re tank gets too hot you need to fix that before adding anything. Also don’t have many other details about your tank such as size, tank mates etc.

I’ve read (Live Aquaria - flame Angelfish) that they are sensitive to copper.

I just purchased an Flame, Majestic and Coral beauty. No qt I put them into my display and they are eating mysis and pellets on day three. Nothing against qt but you must know what you are doing and watch ammonia/water quality closely. My LFS does this for me. The only time I’ve ever had disease or unexplained deaths was when I attempted qt for my previous tank it just didn’t work for me.

I keep ammonia under check always, and it is a relatively big QT system, 45gals to be exact. So ammonia wouldn’t be a problem. I have a 240gals display and most fish (even large angels) survive those temps with no ill effects. 34 is the ceiling. 32 is the average during the summer. But during the night, it would drop to 30.

 

[Jase4224]

I keep ammonia under check always, and it is a relatively big QT system, 45gals to be exact. So ammonia wouldn’t be a problem. I have a 240gals display and most fish (even large angels) survive those temps with no ill effects. 34 is the ceiling. 32 is the average during the summer. But during the night, it would drop to 30.

That’s interesting that they handle those temps. I guess oxygenation would be very important at those temps. You obviously have experience keeping angels and the flame is widely considered a beginners fish so perhaps it’s the copper? I don’t know but I bet if you try keeping and just observing in qt for a month or two without chemicals it should be fine.

 

[SMSREEF]

Hello all,

I’m currently eyeing on getting dwarf angelfish for my FOWLR. I’m thinking of getting a flame angelfish. Problem is, I haven’t successfully kept one. The last one probably died of velvet, I kept the angels at 0.35ppm Cupramine for 4 weeks (I think that’s where the problem was). It suddenly stopped eating in copper on the 3rd week and eventually died when I transferred to the DT within a week. I transferred it immediately after the 4th week thinking it was just copper’s effect, but it was actually due to disease. I’ll probably be getting one, but I’m worried this might go down as another unsuccessful attempt and bring the whole tank down again. This time, I’ll push for 0.5ppm Cupramine and of course the usual 2-dose prazipro. Also, if anyone must know, the tank has no chiller, so temps could get as high as 33-34 during the summer (I live in a tropical country btw). Is a flame angelfish feasible with my setup? And any tips to make sure it is disease free?

If you don’t want to use copper maybe try a different way like TTM.
I am using copper power at 2 ppm because there seems to be one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM.
Check out @HotRocks thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

 

[HotRocks]

I don’t think 0.5ppm is near enough copper to treat ICH and velvet. If you don’t want to use copper maybe try a different way like TTM.
I am using copper power at 2 ppm because there seems to be one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM.
Check out @HotRocks thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

.5ppm is actually the correct therapeutic level for cupramine, which is what the OP is using in this case. It’s ionic copper so the therapeutic level is much lower than a chelated copper product like copper power.

I would recommend anyone who is having trouble with cupramine to give copper power a whirl as it seems to be much less harsh on the fish IME.

 

[SMSREEF]

.5ppm is actually the correct therapeutic level for cupramine, which is what the OP is using in this case. It’s ionic copper so the therapeutic level is much lower than a chelated copper product like copper power.

I would recommend anyone who is having trouble with cupramine to give copper power a whirl as it seems to be much less harsh on the fish IME.

Thank you so much for the correction, that’s why I tagged you just to make sure...
I’m gonna edit that post so I don’t mess anyone up.

 

[najer]

England here, I don't qt anything and have never had a disease, I trust my lfs.
Captive bred flame, I got her as a baby, she could swim through egg crate when I got her.

 

[HotRocks]

England here, I don't qt anything and have never had a disease, I trust my lfs.
Captive bred flame, I got her as a baby, she could swim through egg crate when I got her.

Both potters angel and flame angel are must have for me! . Beautiful fish!

 

[mattzang]

dang do corals take the temperature ok? i suddenly feel better that my tank gets to about 82 degrees in the summer

 

[Sashaka]

.5ppm is actually the correct therapeutic level for cupramine, which is what the OP is using in this case. It’s ionic copper so the therapeutic level is much lower than a chelated copper product like copper power.

I would recommend anyone who is having trouble with cupramine to give copper power a whirl as it seems to be much less harsh on the fish IME.

I agree. I've used Copper Power for many, many years even with copper sensitive fish. I do bring the copper up slowly over a couple of days on copper sensitive fish but my flames have always come through treatment without issues. You might want to look at getting a chiller or an air conditioner to control the temperature swings within the tank better as fluctuations and/or fish surviving at temperatures that are not normal for the fish species can cause stress and lower immune systems.

 

[roberthu526]

I have kept a few and still have one right now. I think flame angel in general are not hard to keep. I did lose a few with no obvious reason but most losses were due to my stupidity. The current one I have is doing pretty well and it’s been with me for over a year. I am not a fan of copper so I run oversized UV to combat parasites. Hope this helps.

 

[mjreefs]

If you don’t want to use copper maybe try a different way like TTM.
I am using copper power at 2 ppm because there seems to be one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM.
Check out @HotRocks thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

.5ppm is actually the correct therapeutic level for cupramine, which is what the OP is using in this case. It’s ionic copper so the therapeutic level is much lower than a chelated copper product like copper power.

I would recommend anyone who is having trouble with cupramine to give copper power a whirl as it seems to be much less harsh on the fish IME.

I agree. I've used Copper Power for many, many years even with copper sensitive fish. I do bring the copper up slowly over a couple of days on copper sensitive fish but my flames have always come through treatment without issues. You might want to look at getting a chiller or an air conditioner to control the temperature swings within the tank better as fluctuations and/or fish surviving at temperatures that are not normal for the fish species can cause stress and lower immune systems.

The problem is I can’t get Copper Power from where I am. Only Cupramine is available, so I have to deal with what I have. But I do ramp it up over a period of 5-7 days. I guess I’ll try to max out copper at .5ppm this time and keep it at the QT for an extended time after that.

As for the temps, it’s gonna be quite difficult to get a chiller for such a big tank (expense-wise) so I guess by experience, the fish can survive those temps. It’s been going on for the past 3 years for the fish. So I guess they were able to adapt well.

 

[mjreefs]

Saw this thread:

Flame angel sick

My angel suddenly can’t swim. Keeps barely moving and has labored breathing. Might be losing some color also

www.reef2reef.com

Similar case happened to my last Except the symptoms exhibited are as follows:
1. Stopped eating
2. Swimming in a corner

All of these happened in 3rd week of 0.35ppm copper (this was my prior regimen, I have since switched to 0.5ppm)

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

England here, I don't qt anything and have never had a disease, I trust my lfs.
Captive bred flame, I got her as a baby, she could swim through egg crate when I got her.

I spy your longnose hawk as well lol

 

[Squidward]

I did TTM on all of my dwarf angels. I no longer QT with copper.