Flame Angel Death Please Help!!!

[Diverxd87]

Hi Everyone,

Three days ago I purchased a Flame Angel from one of my LFS'S. It seemed to be fine at the fish store and was eating while I was there. Is there something specific I should be looking for when I purchase the fish? Fins, scales and swimming state all seemed normal to me? Did I miss something?

As soon as I brought him home he went in to Quarantine. I started PraziPro and a daily dose of fish keeper. This morning when I woke up ( the third day of treatment) he was laying on his side breathing heavily. The only physical symptom I could see that was wrong was red sores around his mouth and tail fin shown in the photos.

I imidiately did a fresh water dip for 5 min then a soke in Rally while dosing the QT tank with cupramine. After a 15min soke I moved the fish back into QT with the cupramine and within 5min he was dead. Did I do something wrong in the process? Was this fish to gone for me to save at that point?

I really love these fish and want to get one for my main display but are they always this sensitive or did I get a bad one that possibly had something form the get go? Also what do you all think the cause of death was?

Thank you for reading this and please let me know your thoughts. Hopefully next time I can get this right.

 

[Alanc425]

Did you drip acclimate?

Next time I reccomend waiting a few days before you start meds. Angels are also very copper sensetive, I wouldn't have added cupramine with it in that condition. Adding the cupramine probably killed it quicker unfortunately.

 

[Diverxd87]

Darn ok! How long should I have it in QT before starting meds?

 

[Alanc425]

Unless it's an immediate situation where you would have to medicate asap(velvet or bad ich case), I like waiting until the fish is eating, comfortably swimming, not stressed or too shy.

 

[Diverxd87]

What do you normal treat the QT with and how long do you wait until transferring the fish over to your main display? Thanks again for answering these questions. You've been a huge help!

 

[Alanc425]

It depends what you are treating. If a fish is not showin any signs of disease, I prophylactically use prazipro and paraguard seperately as I think they are gentle enough. If you check the stickies on top of the forum by humble fish it gives you lists of medicine, types of disease and how to properly QT.

Going back to the angel though....Did you test for ammonia or have a ammonia alert badge? Or mix the cupramine with anything else? Cupramine with most water conditioners(prime, ammonia reducers etc) is usually an instant death sentance


For transfering fish to DT, im impatient and do it after treatment finishes BUT this is not the correct way, waiting a week or two is best to make sure fish is healthy and that treatment worked is best.

 

[twilliard]

I only add meds to qt if I see a reason to.
The transportation of fish (stress) going straight into qt with meds is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Diverxd87]

No ammonia reducers or anything. Tank is cycled I have an alert badge. PraziPro was on its third day in the system. I have Paraguard and will try that next time. What do you normally feed angel fish while in QT anything special? Here's my setup and second day of Angel fish in QT.

 

[jumplittlechloe]

Going back to the angel though....Did you test for ammonia or have a ammonia alert badge?

Did Tank Transfer and my fish exhibited same symptoms on third day. Saved it but it was a goby. Really think it was ammonia.

 

[Alanc425]

Reef frenzy soaked in selcon or vitachem depending what I have on hand

 

[Diverxd87]

Wow I don't think I've ever seen any of those foods or vitamins at my 5 LFS'S.

 

[4FordFamily]

Sounds like ammonia burn to me.

Also IME Angels have no more sensitivity to copper than anything else, I've probably brought 15+ dwarf Angels/(centropyge) through cupramine, 3 through coppersafe, and 10 large angels without a single issue. Increase copper slow.

The issue with Angels is that they're sensitive to ammonia. However with copper many people use amquel or prime to detoxify ammonia DO NOT do this as it will make the copper poisonous.

I've actually found wrasse to be far more sensitive to copper than Angels, even the occasional tang for me has been a bit more sensitive. I've probably successfully brought 20-22 tangs through copper (I qt'd for myself and several friends, and also had a tank crash that devastated a tank full of fish so I had to start over so that's why the high numbers). Halichoeres wrasse struggle heavily if not very established in captivity, leopards moderately struggle, cleaners seem completely unaffected as do large wrasse like banana, red coris, and lunare

 

[4FordFamily]

By the way coppersafe is more effective and seems easier on most fish.

 

[Humblefish]

I started PraziPro and a daily dose of fish keeper.

What is fish keeper?

 

[Diverxd87]

Sounds like ammonia burn to me.

Also IME Angels have no more sensitivity to copper than anything else, I've probably brought 15+ dwarf Angels/(centropyge) through cupramine, 3 through coppersafe, and 10 large angels without a single issue. Increase copper slow.

The issue with Angels is that they're sensitive to ammonia. However with copper many people use amquel or prime to detoxify ammonia DO NOT do this as it will make the copper poisonous.

I've actually found wrasse to be far more sensitive to copper than Angels, even the occasional tang for me has been a bit more sensitive. I've probably successfully brought 20-22 tangs through copper (I qt'd for myself and several friends, and also had a tank crash that devastated a tank full of fish so I had to start over so that's why the high numbers). Halichoeres wrasse struggle heavily if not very established in captivity, leopards moderately struggle, cleaners seem completely unaffected as do large wrasse like banana, red coris, and lunare

How did the fish get ammonia burn if there is zero ammonia in the tank?

 

[4FordFamily]

How did the fish get ammonia burn if there is zero ammonia in the tank?

Do you use an ammonia badge? Tests are inaccurate with meds present.

Not sure otherwise. Just what it sounds like to me.

 

[Diverxd87]

What is fish keeper?

Fish Keeper is more of a daily vitamin to help boost the fishes immune system. This is what I have been told. It does seem to have a positive effect on the fish since I dose my main display tank with it for a week every time I add a new fish. Let me know what your thoughts are of this product and if it could potentially have a side while treating the fish in QT?

 

[Alanc425]

Fish Keeper is more of a daily vitamin to help boost the fishes immune system. This is what I have been told. It does seem to have a positive effect on the fish since I dose my main display tank with it for a week every time I add a new fish. Let me know what your thoughts are of this product and if it could potentially have a side while treating the fish in QT?

I tried looking it up too, hard to say cause I cant find anything on what they put in the stuff. Is there an ingredients or vitamin list on the bottle?

Going based off its website on the things it claims to treat while being reef safe, id say its snake oil.

 

[Diverxd87]

I tried looking it up too, hard to say cause I cant find anything on what they put in the stuff. Is there an ingredients list on the bottle?

When I get home later today. I'll take some pics of the bottle.

 

[Diverxd87]

Do you use an ammonia badge? Tests are inaccurate with meds present.

Not sure otherwise. Just what it sounds like to me.

Yeah look at the previous start up of this thread. I posted a few pictures for all of you to see the fish and the tank setup. Let me know what you think. Thanks