Flame Angel fin issue

[Risk1994]

My flame angels appetite has dropped sharply in the past week and now I see the clear portion of the pectoral and tail fins are nearly gone. I cant tell if they been picked away or something else.

Other tank mates are yellow tang, damsel, 2 clowns. I have never witnessed any other fish pick at this angel, ever.

There are no inverts (other than corals) in this tank yet, no snails, crabs, shrimp.

Is there some natural disease or process that makes this happen? His swimming is becoming hampered.

The yellow tang stopped eating for a brief period recently and one clown had some stringy poop. I've been feeding food soaked in general cure for several days now.

 

[jassermd]

Calling in the experts: @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081
I'm not a fish expert... however, it looks like fin and tail rot.
You may want to post your parameters, etc to help in the diagnosis.

 

[Risk1994]

Fairly new tank, I've only ever had Nanos with one fish. This is a real learning process for me, never had all these fish issues. My build thread documents some other issues I've had...I feel like there must be something hugely wrong im doing fishwise. My corals are doing pretty well.

Salinity 1.025
Temp 79
Ph 8
Alk 7.5
Po4 .05
No3 14
All pretty stable although battling some cyano

 

[vetteguy53081]

I suspect the clowns are involved and may be nipping at the fishs' fins. There are clear bite marks and not raggy like fin rot.
Are the clowns really doing this?
To find out, Set your cell phone to video mode and record for about 60-100 minutes. As you walk away, drop a little food.
You must walk away as they will know you are there. Come back and review video and you will see what is going on. Reason for food is mainly the female will try to hog food and will go after flame to get it first.
As for flame- you will need to isolate it in an acclimation box, or even a net breeder cage for livebearers (clamps will rust in time)

 

[Risk1994]

I did notice a few days ago the flame doing the submissive dance next to the female clown. That thing that little clowns do near bigger ones to show submission... weird as the flame is three times the size... and was an aggressive eater.

I thought I was seeing things with that display. Do flames do this to show submission?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I did notice a few days ago the flame doing the submissive dance next to the female clown. That thing that little clowns do near bigger ones to show submission... weird as the flame is three times the size... and was an aggressive eater.

I thought I was seeing things with that display. Do flames do this to show submission?

This sure does look like the result of aggression, but the clowns don’t usually cause this much damage.
You may need to isolate he angel and dose with antibiotics as there seems to be a secondary bacterial infection involved at this point.
Jay

 

[ChaosAquaculture]

I would say initially the clowns did the damage and then that spired to fin and tail rot through a bacterial infection. I would pull him out and dose with meds - kali

 

[Risk1994]

I would say initially the clowns did the damage and then that spired to fin and tail rot through a bacterial infection. I would pull him out and dose with meds - kali

I suppose this is plausible.

I placed him in the sump last night, now nearly the entirety of the clear side fins and clear portion of his tail fin are now gone. Fins have definitely gotten worse. He can no longer swim properly. He sees food but doesnt go for it.

Fish are shaping up to be much more difficult than corals despite all my efforts.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I suppose this is plausible.

I placed him in the sump last night, now nearly the entirety of the clear side fins and clear portion of his tail fin are now gone. Fins have definitely gotten worse. He can no longer swim properly. He sees food but doesnt go for it.

Fish are shaping up to be much more difficult than corals despite all my efforts.

Funny - I think SPS are much more difficult than fish (grin). Are you going to dose the angel with antibiotics? I think based on the increasing fin damage, that is going to be necessary, but it may already be too late - antibiotics can take up to three days to really start working...

Jay

 

[Risk1994]

I need to set up another tank for that. I have corals in DT.

Ill try to do that tonight with a 10g and DT water, then Ill dose it with general cure.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I need to set up another tank for that. I have corals in DT.

Ill try to do that tonight with a 10g and DT water, then Ill dose it with general cure.

General Cure is not a good antibiotic. The metronidazole it contains has some affect on anaerobic bacteria, but by virtue of being out in the open tank water, this bacteria would be aerobic. I would dose with a true antibiotic - Kanaplex or Neoplex, even Maracyn 2.

Jay

 

[jaganshi066]

Fairly new tank, I've only ever had Nanos with one fish. This is a real learning process for me, never had all these fish issues. My build thread documents some other issues I've had...I feel like there must be something hugely wrong im doing fishwise. My corals are doing pretty well.

Salinity 1.025
Temp 79
Ph 8
Alk 7.5
Po4 .05
No3 14
All pretty stable although battling some cyano

I hope all works out, I feel
Bad for the little guy. How long has your tank been running?

 

[Risk1994]

So I filled up an old 10g with DT water and dropped in 1 packet of General Cure. The angel is marinating in it now...anything else I should be using? I dont think copper is needed here....should I be adding like prazi or something?

He has a hard time swimming but has a lot of fight in him. Hopefully tommorow I can get him to eat.

I hope all works out, I feel
Bad for the little guy. How long has your tank been running?

Around 5 months. Really struggling through this early phase. Lots of mysterious fish issues. Getting Cyano..corals are doing well though oddly.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So I filled up an old 10g with DT water and dropped in 1 packet of General Cure. The angel is marinating in it now...anything else I should be using? I dont think copper is needed here....should I be adding like prazi or something?

He has a hard time swimming but has a lot of fight in him. Hopefully tommorow I can get him to eat.



Around 5 months. Really struggling through this early phase. Lots of mysterious fish issues. Getting Cyano..corals are doing well though oddly.

Well, let us know how it turns out. As I said though, General Cure is an anti-parasitic medication and this is a bacterial issue.

Jay

 

[Risk1994]

Well, let us know how it turns out. As I said though, General Cure is an anti-parasitic medication and this is a bacterial issue.

Jay

Sorry I must have missed your previous message, so your suggesting Kanaplex or Neoplex, or Maracyn 2.

Darn just seeing this now. I dont have any of those.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry I must have missed your previous message, so your suggesting Kanaplex or Neoplex, or Maracyn 2.

Darn just seeing this now. I dont have any of those.

The problem with choosing an antibiotic is that without a sensitivity test (like they do if they think you have strep throat) there is no real way to select the best antibiotic - so the best thing is to go with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic and follow the label instructions. Trouble is, from what I can seen, most of the angle's tail is gone. Once the bone is involved, it often cannot be cured, and if it is cured, the tail may not grow back - sorry!

Of the three - I would opt for Kanaplex.....

Jay

 

[Risk1994]

RIP

 

[Risk1994]

Thanks for the help.

I can now open my own fish pharmacy...not that I have any fish anymore Next fish that shows anything I have a 10g ready to go on a moments notice.



first defense, copper power, general cure, maracyn two, metroplex, kanaplex and prazipro and focus to make it all go down. Anything else I'm missing?

 

[davidcalgary29]

methylene blue?

 

[Tamberav]

My poor damsel ended up with bad tail rot. He stopped eating but I was able to cure it with nitrofuracin green. The bone was involved so he is missing like 90 percent of his tail but still zips around fine now.