Flame Angel Heavily Breathing

vetteguy53081 · Jan 15, 2021

Teku1998 said:
I bought cupramine and copper tests. That’s what the LFS manager recommended.

The dots came out super distinct after the FW dip. His gills were actually whiter than normal when I left - I didn’t notice any inflammation. He was at the surface gasping in that box when I left.

What is your ammonia and nitrate levels?
I see youre running airstone which is good.

temp 77-79
ammonia < .03
nitrate < .04
salinity 1.024

Mastiffsrule · Jan 15, 2021

Evening,

I am far from an expert but my thoughts turn to being bullied during your time away which led not eating which led to an underlying disease.
Regardless from what you are saying, any possibility you could get a hospital tank set up, even in a 5 gallon bucket?

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
What is your ammonia and nitrate levels?
I see youre running airstone which is good.

temp 77-79
ammonia < .03
nitrate < .04
salinity 1.024

Ammonia has been showing 0 for a while now. Nitrate was at 10 yesterday. Salinity at 1.026 and temp a solid 78. These have been constants since the tank’s genesis & the cycle completed

Mastiffsrule said:
Evening,

I am far from an expert but my thoughts turn to being bullied during your time away which led not eating which led to an underlying disease.
Regardless from what you are saying, any possibility you could get a hospital tank set up, even in a 5 gallon bucket?

interesting, I could definitely see that. i’m almost positive he was eating during the time of us being back while dosing the herbal ich treatment though.
I have a 20 gallon tank that I can set up as a hospital tank. I just have to make all the water as I’m sitting at 10 gal RODI and no SW right now. Life’s been busy

vetteguy53081 · Jan 15, 2021

What test kit(s) are you using? Constant zero tells me API test kits by chance?

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
What test kit(s) are you using? Constant zero tells me API test kits by chance?

It’s an API test kit, yeah. I’ve heard mixed things on them - I do plan on converting all of my tests to Salifert as I run out. I figured no reason to buy an ammonia kit now that it was cycled until the next tank I do.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 15, 2021

Teku1998 said:
It’s an API test kit, yeah. I’ve heard mixed things on them - I do plan on converting all of my tests to Salifert as I run out. I figured no reason to buy an ammonia kit now that it was cycled until the next tank I do.

I would highly suggest to take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and have them test water for you to verify readings and compare with yours. This is not a wait situation and would be devastating to find it is much more elevated than you were seeing.

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
I would highly suggest to take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and have them test water for you to verify readings and compare with yours. This is not a wait situation and would be devastating to find it is much more elevated than you were seeing.

Would I have alarming ammonia with a stably “high” nitrate level though? My only LFS uses api test kits. They sell saliferts, i could pick one up tomorrow for ammonia etc.

Plus the emerald crab (forgot about him), chocolate chip star, and skunk cleaner are doing OK right now, which strays us from water parameters I thought?

Many thanks to you all. I’m still at work - stil just trying to formulate a plan & see if it’s worth staying up late waiting for RODI

MnFish1 · Jan 15, 2021

Teku1998 said:
Would I have alarming ammonia with a stably “high” nitrate level though? My only LFS uses api test kits. They sell saliferts, i could pick one up tomorrow for ammonia etc.

Plus the emerald crab (forgot about him), chocolate chip star, and skunk cleaner are doing OK right now, which strays us from water parameters I thought?

Many thanks to you all. I’m still at work - stil just trying to formulate a plan & see if it’s worth staying up late waiting for RODI

You can always set up the 20 gallon with 10 gallons of water? then add more tomorrow? PS - I only use API tests - have found them accurate (enough) - esp for nitrate PO4 alkalinity and Ca. The thing is you just have to follow the directions exactly.

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

MnFish1 said:
You can always set up the 20 gallon with 10 gallons of water? then add more tomorrow? PS - I only use API tests - have found them accurate (enough) - esp for nitrate PO4 alkalinity and Ca. The thing is you just have to follow the directions exactly.

The filter that I found is a HOB. Thank you - that gives me some relief. The fish is still floating at the top. Barely breathing it seems :/ at this point what should I do to protect the others? Valentini puffer, diamond goby, 2 clowns, the starfish & shrimp, and an exquisite fire fish.

It probably isn’t much too seasoned SW guys but my fiancé loves these fish. She’s heartbroken that starburst is dying

MnFish1 · Jan 15, 2021

Teku1998 said:
The filter that I found is a HOB. Thank you - that gives me some relief. The fish is still floating at the top. Barely breathing it seems :/ at this point what should I do to protect the others? Valentini puffer, diamond goby, 2 clowns, the starfish & shrimp, and an exquisite fire fish.

It probably isn’t much too seasoned SW guys but my fiancé loves these fish. She’s heartbroken that starburst is dying

well - the shrimp, starfish shoudl be able to stay in the tank. Puffers are difficult with copper - as are some gobies. As I said before - as long as the other fish aren't sick 'now' - you can maybe just take the angel out - and try to treat - while you wait for more advice from the disease experts here.

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

MnFish1 said:
well - the shrimp, starfish shoudl be able to stay in the tank. Puffers are difficult with copper - as are some gobies. As I said before - as long as the other fish aren't sick 'now' - you can maybe just take the angel out - and try to treat - while you wait for more advice from the disease experts here.

Okay. No sense in FW dipping anyone who has no visible symptoms (breathing weird, spots, fin rot), is there? I saw no flukes come out of the flame angel, so I’m working on the theory that it was ich. If the flame angel is alive when I get home I will work on trying to move him but if he’s already this far gone I’m sure the copper will be the final nail.

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

At this point, I’m wondering, what would implications be of just putting everybody into the 20 gallon quarantine tank, doing that process, and tearing down the display tank? How far down does it have to go i.e. would we have to bleach the rocks or just replace the substrate?? The puffer needs a separate form of treatment I’ve read, so that means two hospital tanks. That sucks. This is a mess. My fiance is distraught, she blames herself for adding the fish from the LFS. We’re still sort of new I guess and didn’t fully understand QTing.

Teku1998 · Jan 15, 2021

Not doing great. He’s upside down if I don’t prop him up. Here is more pics.

Teku1998 · Jan 16, 2021

The flame angel has passed

how sad. I will await the experts to see what I should do next. We will keep doing the Kordon ich attack indefinitely. I am moving the second week of February, but not against a QT. I only have a 20gal available right now for that. Remaining fish are an exquisite fire fish, 2 clownfish, a valentini puffer, and a diamond tiger goby.

Dbichler · Jan 16, 2021

Honestly I’m no expert but have been in saltwater 15 years. If I was to move in a month and had ich I would completely remove everything including rock and sand. Set up a qt and treat fish. Then when I moved recycle the dt and you know your good to go.

Jay Hemdal · Jan 16, 2021

Teku1998 said:
The flame angel has passed how sad. I will await the experts to see what I should do next. We will keep doing the Kordon ich attack indefinitely. I am moving the second week of February, but not against a QT. I only have a 20gal available right now for that. Remaining fish are an exquisite fire fish, 2 clownfish, a valentini puffer, and a diamond tiger goby.

Sorry to hear. I just read the recent posts as they played out, and I'm left wondering if it could have been Amyloodinium, velvet? The only countering symptom to that would be if the remaining fish are all symptom-free. How are they doing?

Jay

Teku1998 · Jan 16, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry to hear. I just read the recent posts as they played out, and I'm left wondering if it could have been Amyloodinium, velvet? The only countering symptom to that would be if the remaining fish are all symptom-free. How are they doing?

Jay

They all ate well this morning, and are swimming fine/acting normal. I’m so nervous now, checking on them every second I get. The puffer’s tiny white fin dots are gone again this morning. They’ve been coming and going; which is why I’ve struggled to pin this as ich. When the flame passed the white spots were gone and his face looked very bumpy. He got very bloated and was floating belly up. Almost looked like a swim bladder issue like I’ve seen in goldfish over the years.

For reference, here’s the puffers white spots at their worst (nearly 2wk ago)

MnFish1 · Jan 16, 2021

Sorry to hear - I think you did all you could - its funny things always seem to happen when people are on vacation...

Teku1998 · Jan 16, 2021

MnFish1 said:
Sorry to hear - I think you did all you could - its funny things always seem to happen when people are on vacation...

I tried my best. We’re pretty upset but at the same time I think it’s mostly because we don’t know what to do going forward for certain, and we don’t want to see any more deaths. We both are very much so animal lovers and I was with him when he passed so he wasn’t alone. Maybe I’m crazy, but I believe that all animals have some sort of feelings.