Flame Angelfish Lost Color

[mjreefs]

Hi all,

So I have this flame angelfish in QT that lost color today, from a typical red to orange. Currently the tank is dosed at full strength of Cupramine (0.5ppm), the fish is eating well and is still a feisty little guy. What do you think happened to it? Can't get a good pic as it is too feisty to take a pic of.

 

[reefwiser]

Generally, this is a stress indicator.

 

[mjreefs]

Generally, this is a stress indicator.

Do you think I should stop copper treatment and see how it responds? The tank was in full copper treatment for 72+ hours since I've noticed the loss of coloration (which is yesterday). Now, the flame is constantly hiding.

Tankmates include a kole tang, yellow coris wrasse and a maroon clown. It is a 50 gallon (45gal water volume) tank.

 

[Big G]

Flame angels do a bit better in a chelated copper like Copper Power or Coppersafe. Cupramine can be a bit harder on dwarf angels. I'd consider removing the Cupramine. Did you do the two big doses as is listed on the container of Cupramine?

 

[AC1211]

Is there any chance of the maroon clown or tang stressing it. If not then its likely copper.

 

[mjreefs]

Flame angels do a bit better in a chelated copper like Copper Power or Coppersafe. Cupramine can be a bit harder on dwarf angels. I'd consider removing the Cupramine. Did you do the two big doses as is listed on the container of Cupramine?

Is there any chance of the maroon clown or tang stressing it. If not then its likely copper.

Too late, fish died yesterday. The other day it went hiding all day and won’t eat. I’m really starting to think that it was indeed copper. And I don’t think it’s velvet as the flame has been healthy the past month. I’ve did 2 doses of prazipro prior to copper and it did not hurt him.

 

[mjreefs]

I saw this comment from @HotRocks not sure if it still applies.

Signs of copper intolerance?

Hey guys, Is it true that copper intolerance means the fish will stop eating first, and then if really bad start breathing heavy and becoming lethargic? And is it also true that it’s very unlikely for them to just suddenly die due to copper toxicity? And they would stop eating etc and show all...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Big G]

Too late, fish died yesterday. The other day it went hiding all day and won’t eat. I’m really starting to think that it was indeed copper. And I don’t think it’s velvet as the flame has been healthy the past month. I’ve did 2 doses of prazipro prior to copper and it did not hurt him.

Sorry for your loss. That's always tough. I see this a lot on the Forum with dwarf angels.

 

[mjreefs]

Sorry for your loss. That's always tough. I see this a lot on the Forum with dwarf angels.

For some reason, all my fish in QT are dropping like dead flies. I have a hypothesis though:

1. The fish in the QT are immunocompromised due to the copper.
2. Since the passing of the flame, I was already lowering copper levels. This resulted in velvet/ich to strike quickly while the fish have less to no immunity.

I have yet to check my copper levels today. Could somebody confirm this hypothesis?

 

[Big G]

Copper does suppress a fish's immune system. Bacterial infections are always a threat while treating with copper. The numerous insertion points of the parasites are prime locations for a bacterial infection to set in.

Copper Power is much easier on fish, and the therapeutic range is wider than ionic coppers like Cupramine, and so is much easier to maintain.

The thing about copper is to use small regular doses when ramping up copper levels broken up throughout the day, AM, lunch, PM over 24-48 hours with velvet, or longer 3-4 days with most cases of Ich.
Or even longer if treating prophylactically, especially for copper sensitive fish. Wrasses, Anthias, Angels and a few others. I'll take 5-7 days slowly ramping up for wrasses for example.

Dosing a wide spectrum antibiotic during copper treatment is often a good idea to prevent those associated bacterial infections. Kanaplex is very mild. The "trifecta" of Kanaplex + Furan2 + Metro works for more difficult bacterial infections.

Water quality can also be a problem during copper treatment and ammonia can spike interfering with the fish's ability to transpire O2.
I keep the following in my DT sump soaking in case I need to setup a hospital tank asap: Foam pad for HOB filter and a bag of ceramic media like Fluval BioMax, and a foam pad for a bubble filter, all soaking 24/7 in the sump. Can do the same with bottled bacteria like BioSpira soaking for at least 24 hours.

All those meds/copper can deplete O2 from the water column. A powerhead aimed up at the surface actively rippling the water surface works well.

 

[albano]

Sorry for the loss of your Flame... not sure about the cause, but regardless, the maroon clown is on my list of ‘never again’ fish.