Flame cardinalfish

derpychicken777 · Jan 4, 2023

Recently found out about these guys but there doesn't seem to be all that much information about them, and the information that does exist seems to be conflicting. It seems generally agreed that they are pretty easy to keep and do better single or in pairs as compared to a small group... But then then it gets really confusing and changes from source to source on how they react with tankmates, specifically other cardinalfish. There have even been some stories of them being aggressive enough to kill anthias? I just wanted to see if anyone here has had actual experience with them, and if their aggression could be reduced if they were introduced with banggais at the same time or added into an established reef where more peaceful fish like banggai and anthias wouldve already set up their territories. Otherwise any information on them is greatly appreciated.

KING KONG · Jan 5, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Recently found out about these guys but there doesn't seem to be all that much information about them, and the information that does exist seems to be conflicting. It seems generally agreed that they are pretty easy to keep and do better single or in pairs as compared to a small group... But then then it gets really confusing and changes from source to source on how they react with tankmates, specifically other cardinalfish. There have even been some stories of them being aggressive enough to kill anthias? I just wanted to see if anyone here has had actual experience with them, and if their aggression could be reduced if they were introduced with banggais at the same time or added into an established reef where more peaceful fish like banggai and anthias wouldve already set up their territories. Otherwise any information on them is greatly appreciated.

Actually flame angelfish will defend its hiding place and chases cardinal fish away aggressively. So, many people not keep them with other cardinal fish. However, if you have more than 50 gal, u can keep than in pair. Still, some people have found Success keeping them with other cardinal fishes. Also, their color tends to fade. They will hide from brighter light. They also will be peaceful with other fishes

derpychicken777 · Jan 5, 2023

KING KONG said:
Actually flame angelfish will defend its hiding place and chases cardinal fish away aggressively. So, many people not keep them with other cardinal fish. However, if you have more than 50 gal, u can keep than in pair. Still, some people have found Success keeping them with other cardinal fishes. Also, their color tends to fade. They will hide from brighter light. They also will be peaceful with other fishes

Sorry, I meant Flame cardinalfish, not flame angels. Genus Apogon

KING KONG · Jan 5, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Sorry, I meant Flame cardinalfish, not flame angels. Genus Apogon

Sorry auto typing. I mean flame cardinal

TokenReefer · Jan 5, 2023

https://www.biotaxa.org/Zootaxa/article/view/zootaxa.924.1.1

derpychicken777 · Jan 5, 2023

KING KONG said:
Sorry auto typing. I mean flame cardinal

No problem! Do you think a single one would get too aggressive with a group of pj’s and a Banggai in something like a 120g?

KING KONG · Jan 5, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
No problem! Do you think a single one would get too aggressive with a group of pj’s and a Banggai in something like a 120g?

PJ's and banggai would be fine together but I can't say about flame.

derpychicken777 · Jan 5, 2023

KING KONG said:
PJ's and banggai would be fine together but I can't say about flame.

Shame, I really love their colours. Probably won’t risk it then.

KING KONG · Jan 5, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Shame, I really love their colours. Probably won’t risk it then.

Actually some had Success keeping them together but some just don't take risk. Still look what others say

derpychicken777 · Jan 5, 2023

KING KONG said:
Actually some had Success keeping them together but some just don't take risk. Still look what others say

Would treating them more like an aggressive fish work? Add anthias and other cardinalfish first before adding one? I still can’t help but worry the other fish would’nt hold their ground even after establishing themselves

vetteguy53081 · Jan 5, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Recently found out about these guys but there doesn't seem to be all that much information about them, and the information that does exist seems to be conflicting. It seems generally agreed that they are pretty easy to keep and do better single or in pairs as compared to a small group... But then then it gets really confusing and changes from source to source on how they react with tankmates, specifically other cardinalfish. There have even been some stories of them being aggressive enough to kill anthias? I just wanted to see if anyone here has had actual experience with them, and if their aggression could be reduced if they were introduced with banggais at the same time or added into an established reef where more peaceful fish like banggai and anthias wouldve already set up their territories. Otherwise any information on them is greatly appreciated.

They are best by themselves, offer more of a deep pink than red pigment, eat frozen foods exclusively and are very peaceful and not very active.

derpychicken777 · Jan 7, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
They are best by themselves, offer more of a deep pink than red pigment, eat frozen foods exclusively and are very peaceful and not very active.

Does by themselves mean only one of the same species, or does it also mean that they don't do well with different cardinalfish species too?

vetteguy53081 · Jan 7, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Does by themselves mean only one of the same species, or does it also mean that they don't do well with different cardinalfish species too?

One alone

Spartan76 · Jan 10, 2023

I've had one for several years. Originally had a mated pair ( the female passed away very early on and was almost 5"). The male is about 3" and this seems to be max size. They do not get along with other cardinals. In fact ,the male ate a trio of 1.5" pajama cardinal that I added in an ill fated experiment. They will consume anything they can fit in their mouths. So avoid small fish and shrimp w them . Note - You can get them to eat pellets and mine does regularly.

derpychicken777 · Jan 10, 2023

Spartan76 said:
I've had one for several years. Originally had a mated pair ( the female passed away very early on and was almost 5"). The male is about 3" and this seems to be max size. They do not get along with other cardinals. In fact ,the male ate a trio of 1.5" pajama cardinal that I added in an ill fated experiment. They will consume anything they can fit in their mouths. So avoid small fish and shrimp w them . Note - You can get them to eat pellets and mine does regularly.

Wow, sounds like a scary fish for being a cardinalfish. If I saw that thing at the lfs the coloring might have been too hard to resist, glad I decided to research it

Doctorgori · Aug 2, 2023

I’m drumming this back up to see if anyone has bred these….
@derpychicken777 any luck breeding them?

anyway ditto to them being kinda nasty…I have 2 of the maculatus and 1 Townsendi …. not recommended in groups, mine only work because its a 100g and lots of hiding spots (they use the same spot every day and defend it)

reefadam · Aug 2, 2023

derpychicken777 said:
Recently found out about these guys but there doesn't seem to be all that much information about them, and the information that does exist seems to be conflicting. It seems generally agreed that they are pretty easy to keep and do better single or in pairs as compared to a small group... But then then it gets really confusing and changes from source to source on how they react with tankmates, specifically other cardinalfish. There have even been some stories of them being aggressive enough to kill anthias? I just wanted to see if anyone here has had actual experience with them, and if their aggression could be reduced if they were introduced with banggais at the same time or added into an established reef where more peaceful fish like banggai and anthias wouldve already set up their territories. Otherwise any information on them is greatly appreciated

I attempted keeping them until I saw one consume a goby that was at least half its’ size. I think a fish like a larger Bangaii would be fine due to their bigger body size, but after reading these comments definitely makes me second guess. It definitely made me question anything I would consider keeping them with. Ultimately I kinda ruled them out, due to their cryptic nature combined with their aggression and potential for eating tank mates.

Doctorgori · Aug 2, 2023

reefadam said:
I attempted keeping them until I saw one consume a goby that was at least half its’ size. I think a fish like a larger Bangaii would be fine due to their bigger body size, but after reading these comments definitely makes me second guess. It definitely made me question anything I would consider keeping them with. Ultimately I kinda ruled them out, due to their cryptic nature combined with their aggression and potential for eating tank mates.

Yeah you generally won’t see these during the day but they do show themselves for about 1/2hr or so before feeding times (2x/day) … the Townsendi did pair (I think) so I ordered more from KP Aquatics bu they sent the very similar maculatus instead ; which made short work of the Townsendi (1 remains, but hides)
I wouldn’t totally rule them out as they do come out more than the Pacific “red” species