Floor Joists vs Ceiling Joists in Apartment

[Reefahholic]

The nails I found above might be the subflooring.

 

[Reefahholic]

It is really difficult to rely only on your stud finder. Without seeing a framing plan you have no clue as to if your joists are running parallel or perpendicular to your tank.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking.

 

[John08007]

This is a disaster waiting ro happen, thats 1200+lbs

 

[Jon Fishman]

It’s likely the slope of the floor and not sagging, but either way, if you fill that much water and it’s not level, you should drain it.

My suggestion, would be to build a new raised floor, with the base being at least an inch of plywood, probably closer to 2”, then tile over it for a nice look, and make it over 2x4’s in a grid pattern. Measure it out so you have exactly one step up to the tank area.

Think of it as a riser for a home theater, if you’ve ever seen one.

Honestly though, that much water on a second floor apartment with a landlord you aren’t open with, is a bad idea

 

[John08007]

The nails I found above might be the subflooring.

The nails that you found are the drywall screws, they are going into the floor joists for the 3rd floor, I am confident yours will run the same way. I wouldn't put that large of a tank on a 2nd floor

 

[mike550]

I’m building a new tank soon. My last tank was only 75/G, because I’m on the 2nd floor. Last time, I located the ceiling joists with a magnet and figured the floor joists would be running the same way. When I set up the tank and filled it with water, it was definitely leaning more to the front which makes me wonder if the joists were running in the opposite direction.

@Reefahholic -- so from your message, the tank was leaning from the beginning? It's not that you leveled it and now it's leaning right? If it was leaning from the beginning then I'm inclined to say it was just the slope of the floor. If it was level and now sagging, then it's the weight.

What does your rental agreement say about fish tanks? I'd hate for something to happen and then your landlord comes after you for repairs.

 

[Reefahholic]

@Reefahholic -- so from your message, the tank was leaning from the beginning? It's not that you leveled it and now it's leaning right? If it was leaning from the beginning then I'm inclined to say it was just the slope of the floor. If it was level and now sagging, then it's the weight.

What does your rental agreement say about fish tanks? I'd hate for something to happen and then your landlord comes after you for repairs.

It was leaning a little bit forward. It was level LT and RT. Then later on I checked it with my level again, and it was a tad more off level leaning forward more.

 

[Kellie in CA]

I'm always amazed that people are able to hide tanks in rentals. Every place I have rented does an inspection at least once a year, sometimes twice. They are always up in our business.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm always amazed that people are able to hide tanks in rentals. Every place I have rented does an inspection at least once a year, sometimes twice. They are always up in our business.

Yes, I stay worried they will find it. Some apartments don’t care, but others seems noisy. Then maintenance guys will snitch you off too.

Maybe I should set it up in the garage. Then I would have some peace of mind. Yet the Texas heat and simi cold winters would probably be very difficult to deal with.

 

[Reefahholic]

If you have an apartment and plan to setup a reef. Take this advice from somebody who’s done reefs in apartments for a very long time. Set it up on 1st floor and in a spare bedroom. Unfortunately I couldn’t do that this time around. Big mistake!

 

[BackToTheReef]

I’m on the 2nd. I’m scared to ask the manager because I don’t want them to know I have a large reef tank.

Hate to be the buzz kill but make sure you check your lease. We aren't allowed to have tanks here and can be evicted if we are caught with them (glad I am finally moving). Also, even if we were we are required to keep the windows clear of furniture/permanent obstructions due to egress rules. They've moved my stuff before b/c they thought it was blocking it.

If you don't want to tell the management about it and maintenance comes in and finds it they sure are.

 

[Soren]

I'm always amazed that people are able to hide tanks in rentals. Every place I have rented does an inspection at least once a year, sometimes twice. They are always up in our business.

Yes, I stay worried they will find it. Some apartments don’t care, but others seems noisy. Then maintenance guys will snitch you off too.

Maybe I should set it up in the garage. Then I would have some peace of mind. Yet the Texas heat and simi cold winters would probably be very difficult to deal with.

Shouldn't this be a fair concern for the owner? Was a fish tank allowed in the contract? It seems obvious to me why an owner would need to know about and allow something that could cause very costly repairs if not done properly or if a tank fails. Water can cause a lot of damage very quickly, and you will very likely be liable for the cost if the contract does not allow for aquariums.

If you have the chance to move your reef to the garage, that would probably be better, although temperature will be less stable. Either way, it could be a costly risk to have a reef tank in an apartment and try to keep it hidden from the owner.

 

[Soren]

It was leaning a little bit forward. It was level LT and RT. Then later on I checked it with my level again, and it was a tad more off level leaning forward more.

...and this should be a great concern if the weight caused it to lean more. Adding even more weight will cause it to sag/lean even more and easily could take the joists past failure if they were not designed for the weight of a tank in a concentrated spot.

 

[John08007]

I tried to Google residential loads for floors, seems like everything says 40lbs per square ft. Your 120 is prob 1200+lbs and 4x2', thats 150pds sq/ft, almost 4x the design capacity.

 

[Reefahholic]

Yeah, this really sucks.

 

[Reefahholic]

I tried to Google residential loads for floors, seems like everything says 40lbs per square ft. Your 120 is prob 1200+lbs and 4x2', thats 150pds sq/ft, almost 4x the design capacity.

Ouch!

 

[Soren]

I tried to Google residential loads for floors, seems like everything says 40lbs per square ft. Your 120 is prob 1200+lbs and 4x2', thats 150pds sq/ft, almost 4x the design capacity.

Ouch!

One good thing for your considerations is that the design load is probably for the entire span of the floor. In an open room, this is going to be closer to the limit (with a factor of safety to prevent failure, so actual maximum might be more like 100lbs per square ft. or more). Of course, you do not want to get into the factor of safety, since that takes away the safety against failure.
In your case, there is a wall directly behind the tank and walls near either end of the aquarium (probably the ends of the 120 would be even closer to those walls). This would distribute a majority of your load through the walls rather than the floor joists. The walls will support a major amount more load than the joists, and shorter joists nearer the support points on the walls will also support more load than in the middle of the room over a longer span.

I do not want to give false insurance, though, as the only real way to know for sure and take away risk of damage costs would be to speak with the owner and try to verify loading from the floor plan. What you do is up to you, but I know I would not place a large reef tank in an apartment without permission from the owner and a clear plan for how much cost you would cover in the event of failure (assuming water damage and not floor collapse... no owner should allow for potential floor collapse, as that damage would be very serious and potentially lethal for occupants below...).

I personally have a smaller tank in the corner over two main supporting walls in a house that I own, so I assume all of my own risks and am free to make my own decisions. I also work as an engineer in a structural application (not related to houses, but dealing with material strengths), so I do have some ideas how to make sure there is adequate strength for support.

 

[Uncle99]

Rent a commercial “stud finder” not the hand ones at Home Depot.
Can see right through concrete man.
Or have it done for you.
Then you will know for sure

 

[DanConnor]

I tried to Google residential loads for floors, seems like everything says 40lbs per square ft. Your 120 is prob 1200+lbs and 4x2', thats 150pds sq/ft, almost 4x the design capacity.

Hmmm... then a 150 lb person standing with feet together would also be 4x the design capacity

 

[bsr2430]

I wanna make sure it’s supported properly.

Here’s a pic of the ceiling I just mapped out.

I ever did this my wife would literally kill me. Hahahahahaah