Floor support 120 gallon

[kramer_reefin]

Looking for recommendations on best spot to place my 120g with 30g sump. 4x2 footprint. Joist are wood I joist with 2.5 inch flanges (10 inches tall I believe). 19.5 on center. Located on a raised crawl space. And due to HVAC runs it would be difficult to add additional support parallel to tank and steel I beam in #2. In #2 the steel I beam will be 6-10 inches in front of the front glass panel.

What's the best spot for support? And bonus if I don't need to add additional support.

And yes I realize only a engineer can give a definite answer but please post advice based on past experiences. I feel like a 120+sump is a very common size.

Edit: steel beam is existing from the builder (during construction)

 

[kbnh]

I’d say you’d be ok in both situations, I’m not an engineer but I am an electrician for what it’s worth. Either way you are placing the steel beam pretty close if not under the tank, option two might be better only because of the distributed load over 3 joists.

 

[fishguy242]

hi, JMO,think you will be fine either position...

 

[hunterallen40]

Best place is probably right on top of the ibeam and sharing the exterior wall (as you have it there in drawing 1). I would consider that pretty much optimal placement, and would not expect you to need extra support for that.

Another good option is perpendicular to the joists, as you have it in option 2.

If you want to run parallel to the joists, you would need to add some support for it. For my 320 gallon, I run parallel to the joists. I had to sister several joists under it, add a wooden I-beam, and add a steel post under the center. The steel post is bolted into the concrete, and into the ibeam. Did this with my brother in an afternoon (though working in a basement is easier than in a crawl space).

You don't need reinforcement for those two options, but I would say you should find the best spot for maintenance and your viewing of it... Then ask how to support it .

 

[Seansea]

Ya either way you are fine with that steel beam runniing right there.

 

[srobertb]

Looking for recommendations on best spot to place my 120g with 30g sump. 4x2 footprint. Joist are wood I joist with 2.5 inch flanges (10 inches tall I believe). 19.5 on center. Located on a raised crawl space. And due to HVAC runs it would be difficult to add additional support parallel to tank and steel I beam in #2. In #2 the steel I beam will be 6-10 inches in front of the front glass panel.

What's the best spot for support? And bonus if I don't need to add additional support.

And yes I realize only a engineer can give a definite answer but please post advice based on past experiences. I feel like a 120+sump is a very common size.

I’ll play…I was just freaking out about my 210g going on our floor (although no sump). First off, you’re probably fine.

After wrestling with it for a week I paid an engineer ($250 for a site visit and a verbal…and $500 for a typed report that I declined to his relief and Saturday). He was an older gentleman who sat at my kitchen counter for 30 minutes doing calculations then said “you’re not even at 50% load.”

I can account for basic loads but accounting for static load/your roof and second story or attic is the hard part for me.

As a “redneck” builder my typical inclination, like 95% of this forum, is to overbuild and not worry about it. How many DIY stands have we all seen on here where there’s 200lbs of 2x4 skinned in veneer meanwhile manufacturers are using MDF for the whole thing.

You say you have an existing interior wall against the tank. Is it load bearing? If yes, is the weight carried down to the foundation? Do you have a second story? What’s your floor? Is it 1/2” solid hardwood on top of 1.5” plywood or linoleum on top of 3/4 plywood?
I think you’re suggesting running a steal I-beam. That sounds exhausting and heavy and expensive vs doubled-up 2x8’s or 2x10’s glued and screwed on a steel jack.

If you feel like you need to do something, and we’ve all been there, the goal in this situation (sounds like to me) is to shorten the run of the floor joists between supports. Getting support directly under the tank or parallel is great if you can, but “shortening” the length of the joists the tank will sit under is great too if you can’t get under the tank.

Measure your joists if you haven’t, look up their spec sheet and it will tell you the capable load at a given length, shorten them until you’re happy.

 

[srobertb]

Ya either way you are fine with that steel beam runniing right there.

Was looking and it’s early but he seems to mention adding a steal beam but then there appears to be one in the pictures. Also, I’m all for overbuilding but adding a steel beam where a couple 2x8’s or 2x10’s will do already be overkill feels like getting punched in the wallet (and lower back).

 

[kramer_reefin]

Was looking and it’s early but he seems to mention adding a steal beam but then there appears to be one in the pictures. Also, I’m all for overbuilding but adding a steel beam where a couple 2x8’s or 2x10’s will do already be overkill feels like getting punched in the wallet (and lower back).

My apologies, the steel beam is already in place. I didn't put it in.

 

[kramer_reefin]

Was looking and it’s early but he seems to mention adding a steal beam but then there appears to be one in the pictures. Also, I’m all for overbuilding but adding a steel beam where a couple 2x8’s or 2x10’s will do already be overkill feels like getting punched in the wallet (and lower back).

Sorry about that, only had 1 cup of coffee when I posted. I did not add that steel beam it was put in originally from initial construction

 

[kramer_reefin]

I’ll play…I was just freaking out about my 210g going on our floor (although no sump). First off, you’re probably fine.

After wrestling with it for a week I paid an engineer ($250 for a site visit and a verbal…and $500 for a typed report that I declined to his relief and Saturday). He was an older gentleman who sat at my kitchen counter for 30 minutes doing calculations then said “you’re not even at 50% load.”

I can account for basic loads but accounting for static load/your roof and second story or attic is the hard part for me.

As a “redneck” builder my typical inclination, like 95% of this forum, is to overbuild and not worry about it. How many DIY stands have we all seen on here where there’s 200lbs of 2x4 skinned in veneer meanwhile manufacturers are using MDF for the whole thing.

You say you have an existing interior wall against the tank. Is it load bearing? If yes, is the weight carried down to the foundation? Do you have a second story? What’s your floor? Is it 1/2” solid hardwood on top of 1.5” plywood or linoleum on top of 3/4 plywood?
I think you’re suggesting running a steal I-beam. That sounds exhausting and heavy and expensive vs doubled-up 2x8’s or 2x10’s glued and screwed on a steel jack.

If you feel like you need to do something, and we’ve all been there, the goal in this situation (sounds like to me) is to shorten the run of the floor joists between supports. Getting support directly under the tank or parallel is great if you can, but “shortening” the length of the joists the tank will sit under is great too if you can’t get under the tank.

Measure your joists if you haven’t, look up their spec sheet and it will tell you the capable load at a given length, shorten them until you’re happy.

That steel beam is in place (from the builder) and it runs through the middle of the house. That interior wall, I don't believe it's load bearing because off the steel beam is only "straight" joist running to the cement cylinder block foundation. Hopefully that makes sense. House it 2 story. Not sure about the thickness of the floor that sits on the joist...how could I find that out, easily?

Shorten the run?.?..could you explain exactly what that means in the most elementary way possible? Lol

Is it a similar concept as in the joist will be stronger the closest it is to what is giving that joist support? As in #2, the load is very close to the steel beam and perpendicular to 3 joist so that spot is "better" than if the load was in the center of a 14 foot joist span?

 

[kramer_reefin]

Was looking and it’s early but he seems to mention adding a steal beam but then there appears to be one in the pictures. Also, I’m all for overbuilding but adding a steel beam where a couple 2x8’s or 2x10’s will do already be overkill feels like getting punched in the wallet (and lower back).

You mind sharing quick details of how your 210g came out to a 50% load? I'm assuming its 12 sq ft footprint and about 2000 pounds.

 

[srobertb]

You mind sharing quick details of how your 210g came out to a 50% load? I'm assuming it’s 12 sq ft footprint and about 2000 pounds.

Details? I love details! I can account for static/dynamic load on simple things like a deck but not home. The tank is not just accounting for 50% load. The total used load is 50% including lumber, flooring, granite, roof, fish tank, etc. I don’t know his calculations specifically.

Accounted for 1800lbs (engineer chose the number based on tank dimensions). Tank footprint is about 13 sq ft.

The home was built in 2016. It is built on the side of a mountain (or hill depending on where you’re from). Typically homes are built here by literally building a 50’ wood wall, then backfilling it with bags (yes bags) of gravel. This is how they built a portion of our pool and a home up the street and it’s amazing to watch as bags are filled and carried and placed by hand. Concrete is poured on top and a home is built. Our builder decided they wanted to try something new. I have heard that after building our home, they decided to not ever do it again. (In all actuality I think there is one other home that is the same or similar to ours).

Subfloor is engineered hardwood on 1.5”-2” plywood. People here expect concrete foundations so they wanted to alleviate creaking or settling I think.

The tank sits on the intersection of 2, 16” doubled-up engineered structural lumber (sandwiched paralams) supported at the exterior wall on a concrete foundation wall 24” thick on a 36” thick footer. Off the exterior wall the 2, paralams are picked up at 10’ on 6x6 steel posts sitting on 3x3 footers. That double Paralam is bisected at 5’ with additional 16” paralams (again, glued and screwed) So at the mid-point of the tank you have a “T” of 4, 16” paralams with a max span of 10’.

The steel posts, of which there are a lot, are spaced across the whole basement at 10’ in a grid pattern on footers with 16” doubled up paralams forming the grid. Our homes footprint is 4,500 square footprint I think -/+.

Joists are 16” on 16”.

The engineer did lots of “I’ve never seen anything like this” and “wow the builder did everything right.” It was very reassuring. I’m not totally surprised as when we originally told the builder we were putting in a fish tank on some cabinets (120g) they insisted, at their cost, on removing the cabinets, building a lumber frame, then retrofitting the cabinets around it to match the kitchen. We also have a floating cabinet next to our fireplace they went ahead and screwed into the studs like normal but also added some custom L steel brackets as well to carry the wood top.
Note the possibly pictured red floor jack I bought but was told I didn’t need. If anyone needs one cheap in TX, it’s available for pickup lol.

I’ve had a 120g on there for 4-5 years. The engineer gave us warm and fuzzies but you just never know (even when an expert says you’re good). Wish me luck…or look out for the news story: “idiot’s mountainside home slides down hill like a scene from a cartoon due to fish tank”

 

[Sleeping Giant]

#1 is your best bet, but both would work. load is distributed across the main house metal beam or 3 floor wood joist beams. no weight issues that I can see.

 

[XyPP]

I had a 125gal 72" tank in #2 orientation for almost 20 years with no known issues. 120/125 gal tanks are really not all that heavy. 180+ is where I'd start to worry and probably consult a expert.