Flow for an SPS Dominant 120 (4x2x2)

[Hentz]

Upgrading to a 120 Gallon, standard size.

Currently I have a Gyre 130 which I'll be using.

Debating on adding 1 or 2 MP40's, though wondering if 2 may be overkill for a majority of frags/Mini Colonies with 2 larger Colonies?

Below is my aquascape. The right side with paper represents my aquascape now that I'll be adding to the tank.

 

[mcarroll]

Look what @bif24701 has recently done. Just for an example....there are many. Someone even tagged me on the BRS video about "gyre pumps" and they get a neat demo of how other pumps work and more be more or less different or better at it.

 

[bif24701]

The gyre is great but two MP40s will do the real work for SPS and acros. Vortechs create a great flow with disturbance all around. Two will also allow you to create a really ****** wave action. With a MP40 and the gyre on one side can give you all the flow you need without the second. The gyre will reach the far end with the MP40 handling everything on the near half. The Vortech may even assist the gyre action.

 

[mcarroll]

I think @bif24701 is being coy or something....unless I'm mistaken he recently added a second Tunze 6105 to his system....though it may not have arrived yet. ??

Currently I have a Gyre 130 which I'll be using.

Have you looked at the Tunze options yet? The options are both plentiful and good whether you keep the Gyre or sell it.

Just for one example, the $285 Turbelle® stream 6105 is the perfect pump for this role in many ways – a pair of them would dominate this tank. For one thing the flow velocity the 6105 generates is almost twice that of the other pumps you're considering. This makes a huge difference in actual performance. There are also several other models they offer that might be great instead or in combination with the 130.

 

[bif24701]

I think @bif24701 is being coy or something....unless I'm mistaken he recently added a second Tunze 6105 to his system....though it may not have arrived yet. ??



Have you looked at the Tunze options yet? The options are both plentiful and good whether you keep the Gyre or sell it.

Just for one example, the $285 Turbelle[emoji768] stream 6105 is the perfect pump for this role in many ways – a pair of them would dominate this tank. For one thing the flow velocity the 6105 generates is almost twice that of the other pumps you're considering. This makes a huge difference in actual performance. There are also several other models they offer that might be great instead or in combination with the 130.

I do have a second 6105 on the way and can't wait. Just one is powerful enough to creat a gyre effect on its own in a 6' 180.

You can see in this video how the Gyre works in my tank, at least for now until I get my second unit

Two Tunze 6105s would be a much better choice simply because of their performance. However they also include a controller and are APEX ready, just need the ~$10 Tunze>APEX and a 0-10V port. In a4' tank like yours and a 6105 at each end would give you an awesome gyre (if you wanted that) that could be truly reversed back the other way. Then when you consider the funds you will save vs two MP40, it's easy, you can spend on other equipment.

I just love the way these things reach way out and move water.
Again, this is a 6' 180 and it's doing a good job.

I made these videos just playing around with my pumps to get an idea of what to do when the second arrives so I was not concerned with sucking air at this point.

 

[Husker]

I may be an exception here, but I'm not very impressed with Vortechs so far. I like the controllability of them and the fact they are a lot easier to clean than the gyre, so I switched over my old Gyre 130s for a vortech MP40 and an MP10 on my 40 Breeder SPS. The drop in flow was so dramatic I started getting cyano. I have an MP60 that I bought in preparation for my 150g upgrade I am planning, so I added that into my 40 breeder. I now have an MP40wqd (full power), MP10wqd (full power), and MP60wqd (~60% power). I am still getting dead spots that I have to hit with a turkey baster to prevent cyano. I feel like I am going to have to add a gyre or tunze or something when upgrading to my 5'x2'x2' tank, because there is no way 1 MP40 and 1 MP60 will be enough.

 

[bif24701]

I may be an exception here, but I'm not very impressed with Vortechs so far. I like the controllability of them and the fact they are a lot easier to clean than the gyre, so I switched over my old Gyre 130s for a vortech MP40 and an MP10 on my 40 Breeder SPS. The drop in flow was so dramatic I started getting cyano. I have an MP60 that I bought in preparation for my 150g upgrade I am planning, so I added that into my 40 breeder. I now have an MP40wqd (full power), MP10wqd (full power), and MP60wqd (~60% power). I am still getting dead spots that I have to hit with a turkey baster to prevent cyano. I feel like I am going to have to add a gyre or tunze or something when upgrading to my 5'x2'x2' tank, because there is no way 1 MP40 and 1 MP60 will be enough.

Cyano doesn't necessarily mean a dead spot, it can stick to rock and sand in pretty high flow.

 

[Husker]

Cyano doesn't necessarily mean a dead spot, it can stick to rock and sand in pretty high flow.

Very true. I was getting much more detritus build up on my rocks until I adding the MP60, though. But the cyano could very well be due to a little bit of water changing neglect that has coincided with my working on the new tank.

 

[ReeferMadnessfragandco]

Upgrading to a 120 Gallon, standard size.

Currently I have a Gyre 130 which I'll be using.

Debating on adding 1 or 2 MP40's, though wondering if 2 may be overkill for a majority of frags/Mini Colonies with 2 larger Colonies?

Below is my aquascape. The right side with paper represents my aquascape now that I'll be adding to the tank.

They say 10-12x your return rate! So on my 90, I have well over 900 GPH! That's what I was always thought!

 

[Hentz]

@ReeferMadnessfragandco Same. Plus I'll be doing Triton which recommends 10x Turnover rate.

With the Simplicity 1600, MP40 x2, Gyre 130, I'll have a total (all at 100%) of about 12,900gph.
Having said, I wouldn't be running everything at full speed..
So I'll probably sit around 8,000gph IN the display with powerheads, plus roughly 1200-1300gph with my return, leaving me at a 10-11x turnover rate for my tank with the return pump alone.

I could be totally guesstimating wrong, but the return pump is about accurate!

I think I'll be going what the heck two MP40's. I think those placed on one side with the Gyre 130 on the other would be plenty of flow for a long time.

 

[mcarroll]

Very true. I was getting much more detritus build up on my rocks until I adding the MP60, though. But the cyano could very well be due to a little bit of water changing neglect that has coincided with my working on the new tank.

No, it was the pumps. A side-effect of the relative flow velocity. (not gph)

This article talks about the effect and some numbers:
Function of Funnel-Shaped Coral Growth in a High-Sedimentation Environment

Tunze's flow vs turbulence YouTube vid is the only place I've seen pumps tested so far.

 

[A_game43]

I have a 120g as well with a very good mix of LPS and SPS. I run the Gyre xf130 and two Tunze 6105's as well, great combo, ton of flow. I run the Gyre @ 50 - 60% max, actually a ramp/randow cycle from 10 - 60%.

 

[mcarroll]

I think I'll be going what the heck two MP40's. I think those placed on one side with the Gyre 130 on the other would be plenty of flow for a long time.

Hopefully so!

You'll have plenty of time to experiment with placement, but the mp40's are only going to reach about 24" into the tank....flow out to 36" is weak. That's why placement on the back panel is somewhat ideal. It also hides those motors!

 

[Hentz]

No, it was the pumps. A side-effect of the relative flow velocity. (not gph)

This article talks about the effect and some numbers:
Function of Funnel-Shaped Coral Growth in a High-Sedimentation Environment

Tunze's flow vs turbulence YouTube vid is the only place I've seen pumps tested so far.

I would agree, flow may have been the main cause of the cyano in the spot.
I love my Gyre 130 now, but I also loved my MP40's when I had those on my older tank.
I just cleaned a friends Gyre 150 that wasn't producing as much flow. A simple scrub woke the beast back up and I was truly impressed with how such a quick cleanse brought it back to life.

I think I'll still go for the MP40's. I love their controllability and look. I'm not a fan of wires in the tank. I've got my Gyre 130 wire going up my black back wall which basically blends in with the wall.

I've never had a Tunze before, which I may add them later on if more flow is required for the tank. I've read nothing but great things about them, just would rather buy something I know from personal experience.

 

[Hentz]

Hopefully so!

You'll have plenty of time to experiment with placement, but the mp40's are only going to reach about 24" into the tank....flow out to 36" is weak. That's why placement on the back panel is somewhat ideal. It also hides those motors!

Well considering my Gyre 130 will easily help counter act that extra space and meet them in the middle, causing some nice chaotic flow around the middle of the tank would be great.

I truly hope a MP40QD rated at 4,500gph would be able to reach the end of a 4' tank.

 

[Hentz]

I have a 120g as well with a very good mix of LPS and SPS. I run the Gyre xf130 and two Tunze 6105's as well, great combo, ton of flow. I run the Gyre @ 50 - 60% max, actually a ramp/randow cycle from 10 - 60%.

Do you have a picture or even a video of the position of your powerheads with the aquascape?

 

[bif24701]

They say 10-12x your return rate! So on my 90, I have well over 900 GPH! That's what I was always thought!

I think your confusing return pump flow rate with powerhead/wavemaker flow.

For an SPS I recommend at least 40x display volume

LPS 25-30x

Softies 15-20x

 

[mcarroll]

Well considering my Gyre 130 will easily help counter act that extra space and meet them in the middle, causing some nice chaotic flow around the middle of the tank would be great.

I'm not as familiar with the Gyres, but my impression was that their flow is almost hyper-laminar vs the mp40's with are almost 100% turbulence. That may be a good compliment in reality, but I don't know.

GPH says nothing about where the water went, only the amount of water than has gone through the pump.

Like I said, you'll have plenty of time to experiment and see for yourself.

I don't doubt you'll find a workable combination of spaces for those three pumps....it's just that you could probably do it for less.

 

[mcarroll]

They say 10-12x your return rate! So on my 90, I have well over 900 GPH! That's what I was always thought!

Mostly what Bif said!

It's kinda old-school to do your flow with your return pump....expensive, but it can work. In general it works out best to have the smallest return pump that'll do the job (lower cost pump and uses less power 24/7/365) and then leave in-tank flow to low-power powerheads. For a 90 Gallon tank on a typical stand with an average, simple return setup, you could get by with anything from as little as a Mag 3, but a Mag 7 would pretty much be overkill. A $50 Quiet One 2200 only takes 38 watts and you'd be able to throttle it back.

 

[Husker]

Well considering my Gyre 130 will easily help counter act that extra space and meet them in the middle, causing some nice chaotic flow around the middle of the tank would be great.

I truly hope a MP40QD rated at 4,500gph would be able to reach the end of a 4' tank.

My MP40qd makes it to the end of my 36" tank, but the flow is significantly reduced by the end (I run mine at full power). I wouldn't put much hope for an MP40 with another foot to go. The MP60 I have does a good job doing the full 3 feet. I thought it would be a joke putting the MP60 in my 40 breeder until I got my 150 up (spilling water onto the floor), but I was amazed that it seems to just be the proper amount of flow for a 40 breeder SPS tank when combined with the MP40 and the MP10. I only have these because I was planning on using them for my upgrade, but this is a ton of money for flow for a 40 breeder.