Flow Rates for newbie explained...

[Silbane]

Hi all,
this is my first post. hopefully you'll be kind on my newbie question:

first, specs: 150 gal cube reef, cycling right now (week 3). my first salty (figured going big would reduce the spikes and variance on my water params), no fish or coral yet. I practiced on a 75 gal freshwater to learn some basics... mainly attention to detail, water changing, parameter IQ, and finally... patience.

When I first plumbed the 150salty, I used 1" on the drop into the sump, and 3/4" on the return. Now I want to replace the 3/4" with 1"... (I know, reminder: me newbie)

I got the Apex and the FMK. Suddenly I was worried that my entire loop would be limited by the one thing I can't change (without a full redo on the overflow box).

So... my entire loop will be 1", EXCEPT for the actual opening through the overflow. Unfortunately I had that plumbed for a 3/4". So if the entire loop is 1" but at the last 4 inches to the exit it narrows to 3/4", have a basically created a 3/4" loop with 1" pipes?

Thanks. And I'm ok with bad news. Also, does it matter?

Sincerely,

V

 

[dbl]

First, welcome to R2R and to the salty side of things.

As to the return going down to 3/4", it's not a big deal in my opinion. In fact, there are many tanks with this situation, including mine. Just as an example, a lot of folks end up using Loc-Line as the return in to the tank and it's 3/4" or even less at 1/2".

 

[Silbane]

First, welcome to R2R and to the salty side of things.

As to the return going down to 3/4", it's not a big deal in my opinion. In fact, there are many tanks with this situation, including mine. Just as an example, a lot of folks end up using Loc-Line as the return in to the tank and it's 3/4" or even less at 1/2".

Yeah, I use a loc-line too. btw, I can't get the thing to adhere to the pvc pipe. What glue do I use? Very frustrating.

So to be clear (btw I didn't give a full accounting of the system: 150gal dt w/ 2 sumps at 56 and 40 gal each. Sump 1 (where the main flow drops) has miracle mud and plants/lettuce... and the return pump. Sump 2 has the protein skimmer (currently off during cycling) and marine balls. 3 heaters... 2 on the job, 1 on backup. (if temp drops more than 77...

So you're saying that if the entire loop is 1" but the exit is 3/4" into the DT, I'm ok? Just to compare, I have a Varios8 and I can't use it off of 1 led level because it empties sump 1 more quickly than my 3/4" gravity drain from Sump 2 to Sump 1.

Oh, path of water is: DT to Sump 1 to 50% to Sump 2 and 50% to DT. Separately, Sump 2 has a siphon drain to Sump 1 at 3/4" (about 560 gph).

I got the entire system to work using a float valve on Sump 2 so the siphon couldn't drain the sump before the Varios could fill it on level 1 force (level 2 drained the sump and I got sick of messing with two valves for my herbie - return up and siphon down)... but I could tell my tank overturn was about 500 gph, about 3x (ideally) less than optimal. So I decided to replumb the tank to 1" hoping to up the gph.

Whew... feels good to get all that out.

Hope I've not screwed anything up... but again, no fish or other life (other than copepods and some hair algae) yet.

Sorry for the gush. You have no idea (or maybe you do) how lonely you feel when you first start out.

Thank you, dbl

 

[Silbane]

Yeah, I use a loc-line too. btw, I can't get the thing to adhere to the pvc pipe. What glue do I use? Very frustrating.

So to be clear (btw I didn't give a full accounting of the system: 150gal dt w/ 2 sumps at 56 and 40 gal each. Sump 1 (where the main flow drops) has miracle mud and plants/lettuce... and the return pump. Sump 2 has the protein skimmer (currently off during cycling) and marine balls. 3 heaters... 2 on the job, 1 on backup. (if temp drops more than 77...

So you're saying that if the entire loop is 1" but the exit is 3/4" into the DT, I'm ok? Just to compare, I have a Varios8 and I can't use it off of 1 led level because it empties sump 1 more quickly than my 3/4" gravity drain from Sump 2 to Sump 1.

Oh, path of water is: DT to Sump 1 to 50% to Sump 2 and 50% to DT. Separately, Sump 2 has a siphon drain to Sump 1 at 3/4" (about 560 gph).

I got the entire system to work using a float valve on Sump 2 so the siphon couldn't drain the sump before the Varios could fill it on level 1 force (level 2 drained the sump and I got sick of messing with two valves for my herbie - return up and siphon down)... but I could tell my tank overturn was about 500 gph, about 3x (ideally) less than optimal. So I decided to replumb the tank to 1" hoping to up the gph.

Whew... feels good to get all that out.

Hope I've not screwed anything up... but again, no fish or other life (other than copepods and some hair algae) yet.

Sorry for the gush. You have no idea (or maybe you do) how lonely you feel when you first start out.

Thank you, dbl

Oh, thoughts???

 

[davocean]

I'm pretty sure w/ a 3/4" restriction it's pointless to go 1" pipe, but agree w/ dbl, 3/4 should be fine.

 

[Silbane]

ack, too late. Have unhooked the unions and reattached the new 1" plumbing. But thanks! At least it looks better

 

[Silbane]

ack, too late. Have unhooked the unions and reattached the new 1" plumbing. But thanks! At least it looks better

I think what I'm going to do is run the 1" all the way to the overflow wall, but not attach it to the actual hole plumbed for 3/4". What would happen if I used a flexible hose to push through there (the hole was plumbed for a 3/4" bulkhead, which means it's about 1.5"... I could just push my pipe through, right?

 

[dbl]

I think what I'm going to do is run the 1" all the way to the overflow wall, but not attach it to the actual hole plumbed for 3/4". What would happen if I used a flexible hose to push through there (the hole was plumbed for a 3/4" bulkhead, which means it's about 1.5"... I could just push my pipe through, right?

Not exactly sure what you're asking here. If you have a 3/4" bulkhead for the return line, simply run the 1" line up to/near the bulkhead. Then use a reducing adapter to take the 1" down to 3/4" and then go in to the bulkhead. Come out of the bulkhead (inside the tank) with your 3/4" Loc-Line and you should be set.

If you have something different, it may be helpful to post some pictures so we can offer other/different options.

 

[reef lover]

Welcome to r2r!!

 

[Silbane]

yes, make sense. I was actually asking if reducing to 3/4" reduces the entire loop to the flow rate of 3/4"...

 

[Sleepydoc]

I'm pretty sure w/ a 3/4" restriction it's pointless to go 1" pipe, but agree w/ dbl, 3/4 should be fine.

Plumbing resistance is additive; the total resistance is the pipe resistance + bulkhead resistance, so depending on the flow, length of pipe, number of fittings, etc, you will get some improvement by increasing the pipe size, even if you have the ¾” bulkhead. Just how much improvement you get depends on your specific setup.

 

[cracker]

dbl is right. It's actually better to use one inch for the horizontal rise. You get more volume. The hardest thing for a pump to push water up. Once the water is there sizing down will just create more velocity. Sounds crazy? Look for more info on this.

 

[Silbane]

Got it! Thank you! My setup is as follows:

DT to Sump1 pumped to Sump2 then siphoned back to Sump1... Sump 1 return Y's sending 50% (valve controllable) to Sump2 and 50% to DT. Siphon is controllable (valve) sending 100% to Sump1...

I replaced all pipes with 1". Now I'm trying to ascertain if the combined flows of the 1" drain and the 1" siphon (I believe that's 900gph each) of 1800 gph will overwhelm my Varios8 return pump. I have 5 90 degree bends and 3.5ft up. Getting out the calculator....

 

[Silbane]

To be clear, it's actually:

<-------------|
|
DT --> Sump1 ---> Sump2
^ |
|----------------

boy that brings back memories of my old Multi User Dungeon days....

 

[Silbane]

To be clear, it's actually:

<-------------|
|
DT --> Sump1 ---> Sump2
^ |
|----------------

boy that brings back memories of my old Multi User Dungeon days....

I'll take a pic while everything is shut off.