Flukes on wrasse

[rob G]

I am having a heck of a time. My second shipment from LA and flukes again. I lost two wrasse in my first shipment and looks like it might be the same deal here. I have a 33 long for a qt, I set it up with a power head on the bottom of the tank pointing up at the surface for agitation, a few extra pieces of live rock for comfort and filtration and pvc pieces as well. I used the water from a water change in my dt and lowered the salinity to match using rodi water. I do not reuse the live rock and am moving them to an extra tank to go fallow for a few months after each qt tank set up. After putting a drop of prime in the bag once opened I confirmed the salinity, made final adjustments to the tank water and added the fish after a good mixing of the water. An exquisite wrasse I thought was doa was upside down in the bag, but I did see movement so I put him in. Laid on the bottom out in the open not moving for several hours but was breathing. I ordered a longfin ruby wrasse who seems to be fine, multicolor Lubbocks, Exquisite wrasse and a blue head wrasse. The bluehead has mainly been in hiding but I did see it eat once. Of course within 30 minutes of letting the fish go I see head twitching and scratching on the lubbocks wrasse.....I fed them the next morning, and even the exquisite ate although still pretty much stays in hiding beneath a rock. Once I saw they all ate I treated with three packets of GC adding one at a time over the period of 2 hours. This morning I notice, even though he ate again this morning the exquisite was laying on his side in hiding and breathing heavily. I would say the GC was in the water for about 20 hours but with him breathing heavy I decided to pull the plug and added carbon. Just did this an hour ago so no signs of improvement yet....the Lubbocks is still twitching and scratching just a little and from a certain angle I think I see a fluke in between his eyes. Is it possible it just hasnt fallen off yet but is dead? I am starting to not want to order anything online if I am going to lose 2 out of 4 fish each time I get them shipped. Frustrated....

 

[Big G]

Sorry to hear about your problems. Here's my acclimation process I use when ordering from LA. Slightly warm my clean acclimation bucket with a bit of tank water from the QT. Pour the bags of fish into the bucket. Start drip from QT into the bucket as described in their handout. Pull out quantities of water from the bucket as described in their handout. Usually takes about an hour and 15 minutes or so. Introduce the fish to the QT. All Lights off until next day. Feed frozen food "smoothie" I make from 7-8 different frozen cubes with several drops of Selcon. Make sure for wrasses one of the frozen cubes used in the smoothie is cyclops. Feed for 2-3 days with ambient light from the room only. Maybe I've been lucky but have not had any losses in quite awhile from LA. I usually treat with copper first. Velvet is rampant in the industry. Then I treat with GC.

~ Gary

 

[spiraling]

I have a really bad rate with my wrasses from LA as well. Lost 1 carpenters and 1 hooded DOA, 1 hooded died within 12 hours, one DD yellow flasher died within 1 week (eating, swimming, then just laid on its side and later died. Other fish and all params were good. did water changes etc.). Another carpenters died in the acclimation box when introducing to the DT after a month of being skiddish in QT. Talking to LA they say its the stress of shipping and a new environment.

The mccloskers is fine, and I have a linespot in QT looking good.

I am also really frustrated with the wrasses from LA and will probably not buy any more.

 

[rob G]

I appreciate the response Gary. I used to only drip acclimate for years but normally I was purchasing from an LFS so they didnt spend that much time in transit. I have been reading more and more lately about those just matching temp and salinity and getting them out of the bags asap. I think I will go back to that method as it always worked best for me, maybe just adding some prime to the bucket. I am just hoping the GC in the tank for 20 hours was enough for the first treatment. I don't see signs of ich or velvet just yet but will do ttm at first sign of ich and have coppersafe and test kit ready if I see signs of velvet. the exquisite is still lethargic and hiding but breathing seems to be normalizing.

 

[rob G]

Thanks Spiraling, Its a shame as I have been researching on how to mix wrasse successfully and plan it to be a wrasse dominant 120 reef. Do you mind sharing how you acclimated your wrasse?

 

[Big G]

and have coppersafe

There have been some problems as of late with the strength of Coppersafe. In some cases, if used as we have in the past, it will way overdose into the toxic range for your fish. So, test, test, test, early and often. Don't be surprised if you end up stopping very early. It seems to depend on the container. Most of us have switched to Copper Power. It has been tested by many and is right on. But don't dose to 2.5 ppm as stated on the bottle. Use the usual 2.0 ppm as the target range. The 2.5 is for copper resistant fish or copper resistant parasites.

~ Gary

 

[rob G]

Gary, good to know, thank you. I hopefully wont have to use it this time around but will order some to have on hand.

 

[Big G]

I have been reading more and more lately about those just matching temp and salinity and getting them out of the bags asap.

Yes. That's why I dump them into a pre-warmed bucket with just a bit of tank water. Usually have to tilt the bucket at a slight angle because not enough water in the bags to use the bucket as normal. I use my wife's very small laundry basket to hold the bucket at a slight angle. It works.
But yeah, low stress, darkened room. Drip for at least an hour or a bit more. Pull the water as the level rises as suggested in their drip handout. I use a very weak flashlight to help me see what I'm doing. It's hard. You want to see your new fish! But no lights for one day at all. And then ambient light from the room for 3 days. Really seems to keep them from getting jumpy or slamming into things. Got a Lubbocks, Dispar Anthia, Blue Spot Puffer and 3 Saphire Blue Damsels in the QT right now. Copper is over and I'm clearing it out of the system as of yesterday. All are doing well. Bought a Hanna High Level Copper Checker. Turns out my API Copper Test kit was way off. Looked like 2.0 ppm. But was actually 2.8 ppm. The wrasse was starting to feel the effects of the copper overdose and was beginning to not eat. Lowered the copper using the Hanna checker. And he became his old self within 24 hours. Highly recommend the Hanna. Anyway. Best of luck.

~ Gary

 

[spiraling]

Thanks Spiraling, Its a shame as I have been researching on how to mix wrasse successfully and plan it to be a wrasse dominant 120 reef. Do you mind sharing how you acclimated your wrasse?

I matched temp and salinity then added them to QT. My water was mixed for several days and aerated. Ammonia badge always 0.
The gobies and tailspot have done great. It seems to be the wrasses that are hard, and I, too, am trying to get a wrasse tank. I thought the 2 from DD would fair better. One had stringy poop. Its the other that died.

Has anyone had better results from different suppliers?

 

[Big G]

For what it worth, I believe it was 4FordFamily or Humblefish the other day that mentioned that most wrasses come with internal parasites, very frequently. They have way more experience than I do. That being said, it's safe to assume that most wrasse's immune systems have been compromised. Thus the importance of great quality food with vitamins to boost their immune systems and treating promptly for those internal parasites. Metro being the med of choice for internal parasites. And General Cure is Metro and Praziquantel. And I like that GC has a lower dosage of praziquantel than the liquid form. We know praziquantel can be hard on wrasses. So it's a difficult fish to ship and treat. But so worth it.

~ Gary

 

[spiraling]

For what it worth, I believe it was 4FordFamily or Humblefish the other day that mentioned that most wrasses come with internal parasites, very frequently. They have way more experience than I do. That being said, it's safe to assume that most wrasse's immune systems have been compromised. Thus the importance of great quality food with vitamins to boost their immune systems and treating promptly for those internal parasites. Metro being the med of choice for internal parasites. And General Cure is Metro and Praziquantel. And I like that GC has a lower dosage of praziquantel than the liquid form. We know praziquantel can be hard on wrasses. So it's a difficult fish to ship and treat. But so worth it.

~ Gary

Yep - I have been reading through their advice and they have responded quickly when I had a wrasse in trouble. I have dipped wrasses after death and have not seen flukes. I'm not sure what else I can do to get a good survival rate.

 

[Big G]

Yep - I have been reading through their advice and they have responded quickly when I had a wrasse in trouble. I have dipped wrasses after death and have not seen flukes. I'm not sure what else I can do to get a good survival rate.

You can combine copper and metro simultaneously. Beginning to think this might be my go to for my wrasses in my next shipment. 30 days of copper and 14 days of metro, would cover both Ich/velvet that may be unseen in the gills, just waiting for the probably sub-therapeutic levels of copper to wear off; and it would treat the internal parasites (worms) that 4Ford & Humblefish have mentioned as all too common in wrasses. Got to have a plan. I hate losing fish.

~ Gary

 

[rob G]

I was hoping to only treat with copper if I saw symptoms but I guess the protocol on that has changed. I have fish that I have had for many years but I have not added any in quite some time, years in fact. I don't recall having such a hard time in the past with it, but I guess times have changed....are you treating every arrival with copper from day one?

 

[HotRocks]

I was hoping to only treat with copper if I saw symptoms but I guess the protocol on that has changed. I have fish that I have had for many years but I have not added any in quite some time, years in fact. I don't recall having such a hard time in the past with it, but I guess times have changed....are you treating every arrival with copper from day one?

I know it is a controversial topic. I choose to treat prophylactically. Wrasse unfortunately, are really good at harboring things such as ich, velvet, flukes, etc. without any visual symptoms/behaviors. I have 4 in QT right now from LA. Leopard Female, Black leopard, Exquisite fairy, and a McCoskers. 4th day of therapeutic copper and doing well. I did start with two bluestars that didn't make it past the first 48 hours in my tank, due to shipping stress. I am using copper power. (I waited 7 days after they were all eating well, to begin copper, and spent 6 days ramping up to my target level of 1.75ppm)

 

[PGT253]

I know it is a controversial topic. I choose to treat prophylactically. Wrasse unfortunately, are really good at harboring things such as ich, velvet, flukes, etc. without any visual symptoms/behaviors. I have 4 in QT right now from LA. Leopard Female, Black leopard, Exquisite fairy, and a McCoskers. 4th day of therapeutic copper and doing well. I did start with two bluestars that didn't make it past the first 48 hours in my tank, due to shipping stress. I am using copper power. (I waited 7 days after they were all eating well, to begin copper, and spent 6 days ramping up to my target level of 1.75ppm)

I'm on the same boat, having 2x Blue Star, 1x Radiant, and 1x Black Leopard in QT for 1 week from LA right now. I'm ramping up Power Copper targeting 1.5ppm in 10 days, currently on day 3 of copper. All the fish are out swimming and picking at food, except for the Black Leopard wrasse which went into the sand tube since arrival. Not sure how the black leopard is doing...

 

[Big G]

are you treating every arrival with copper from day one?

Getting them eating first. Superfoods: a smoothie of 7-8 different mixed frozen cubes and Selcon. But by the end of the 3rd day if they are eating, I've been ramping up copper and have significantly reduced my loses. Velvet is rampant in the industry these days.

 

[HotRocks]

I'm on the same boat, having 2x Blue Star, 1x Radiant, and 1x Black Leopard in QT for 1 week from LA right now. I'm ramping up Power Copper targeting 1.5ppm in 10 days, currently on day 3 of copper. All the fish are out swimming and picking at food, except for the Black Leopard wrasse which went into the sand tube since arrival. Not sure how the black leopard is doing...

I think I've seen you on the hanna thread, but it's getting lengthy. Sorry if I'm wrong. Remember the min is 1.5ppm. If you drop below, you have to restart the 30 day clock. That's why I am trying to stay around 1.75ppm. I also have a regal angel and an idol in this batch. They are eating very well and seemingly unaffected, at the 1.75ppm.

 

[Maritimer]

adding some prime to the bucket.

You're getting awesome advice, but I did notice this; be aware that Prime can drastically increase the toxicity of any copper in the bag water.

~Bruce

 

[deedubz]

For what it worth, I believe it was 4FordFamily or Humblefish the other day that mentioned that most wrasses come with internal parasites, very frequently. They have way more experience than I do. That being said, it's safe to assume that most wrasse's immune systems have been compromised. Thus the importance of great quality food with vitamins to boost their immune systems and treating promptly for those internal parasites. Metro being the med of choice for internal parasites. And General Cure is Metro and Praziquantel. And I like that GC has a lower dosage of praziquantel than the liquid form. We know praziquantel can be hard on wrasses. So it's a difficult fish to ship and treat. But so worth it.

~ Gary

I recently purchased a female flame fairy wrasse and a female rhomboid fairy wrasse from a very highly praised vendor. These fish were "pre quarantined"

They're in copper because I had a velvet outbreak a few days before they arrived(snails/hermits I didn't qt) and I didn't want to chance it. That said, they're also being treated with prazi and will get food soaked metro because of flukes and intestinal parasites! Those were free of charge though..
Nifty.

 

[rob G]

You're getting awesome advice, but I did notice this; be aware that Prime can drastically increase the toxicity of any copper in the bag water.

~Bruce

I appreciate that. I am planning on several more orders over the next few months and hopefully will get this down this time so there are no more losses.