Focus, Metroplex and meaty foods

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

I am treating my 7" Porcupine Puffer for IP and I believe focus is having a tough time binding Metroplex to meaty foods. I am mostly feeding the puffer chopped up squid at the moment because it is the only food that he eats without making a huge mess. However, due to the fact that squid seems less 'porous' than other types of seafood meat, I feel like the focus may not be working well to bind the Metroplex. I soak the squid for up to a few hours and when I drop it in the QT for him to eat, there is a pretty big cloud that comes off the food into the water.

Does anyone have experience using focus with meaty foods?

I do think he is getting some of the Metroplex because his condition has improved but it seems to be improving very slowly. I also tried to use Focus and Metro with prawns but the same thing happened. He is a large fish and won't look twice at smaller foods like pellets or mysis so that is not an option.

Flippers4pups · Apr 21, 2020

There will be some of the focus and metro come off the food. This is normal as not all of will adhere to the food.

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

Thanks, good to know. I figured this might be normal but I also still wonder how much of the medication he is getting.

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

It's almost impossible to get any medications in Canada since most were banned a few years ago. I was able to get some Metroplex and Focus from a fellow reefer which saved my puffers life but I have such a small amount that I am worried about how much is getting to him and how much ends up in the water, essentially wasted because I am doing daily 50% water changes to keep ammonia levels safe. He is a really large guy and eats a LOT. I am underfeeding him at the moment but it's still a crazy amount of food for 50 gallons of un-cycled water.

I believe he has developed a secondary bacterial infection due to water quality. I am not finding traces of ammonia but I keep getting bacterial blooms, especially after feeding medicated food. Is this normal?

He began to get some fin rot and cloudy eyes. I was able to treat him with Kanaplex but again, I only had a very limited amount. I was able to get the fin rot to stop but he still has cloudy eyes, almost like a film covering part of the outside. It looks fairly thick. I ran out of Kanaplex and have not been able to get more. I am relying on water changes and good nutrition hoping he could beat the infection but I have my doubts.

I really only have access to Melafix which I didn't think was even worth trying...it sucks to live in Canada and try and treat fish for parasites and infections.

Flippers4pups · Apr 21, 2020

Is he in a QT tank? Can you get API general cure in Canada? It's at most petcos and PetSmart's here in the states.

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

Flippers4pups said:
Is he in a QT tank? Can you get API general cure in Canada? It's at most petcos and PetSmart's here in the states.

Yes, he is in a 50G QT. Sadly, all medication, including general cure are illegal to sell in Canada. I am not sure why but I think 2 years ago the government banned them all. I believe it was due to commercial fish farms and our hobby just got overlooked. I find it crazy that we can have fish as pets but not get the proper medication to care for them! Anyways, I could rant about this forever.

I was told of one place I may be able to get general cure if I discreetly ask.

I did order General Cure from ebay but I believe it may have been confiscated at he boarder because it should have arrived weeks ago. That or the pandemic is delaying it but I have a feeling it just wasn't allow in the country.

Does General Cure work well for cloudy eyes?

Flippers4pups · Apr 21, 2020

Justin_Reef said:
Yes, he is in a 50G QT. Sadly, all medication, including general cure are illegal to sell in Canada. I am not sure why but I think 2 years ago the government banned them all. I believe it was due to commercial fish farms and our hobby just got overlooked. I find it crazy that we can have fish as pets but not get the proper medication to care for them! Anyways, I could rant about this forever.

I was told of one place I may be able to get general cure if I discreetly ask.

I did order General Cure from ebay but I believe it may have been confiscated at he boarder because it should have arrived weeks ago. That or the pandemic is delaying it but I have a feeling it just wasn't allow in the country.

Does General Cure work well for cloudy eyes?

If the cloudy eyes are from a bacterial infection it may help, but the list of meds for bacterial infections listed here are better:

Fish Diseases 101

Fish Diseases 101 The purpose of this article is to provide a quick reference for identifying both “Common Diseases” and “Not So Common Diseases” afflicting saltwater fish. It is by no means a comprehensive list, but should cover the vast majority of fish diseases encountered by the average...

www.reef2reef.com

Big G · Apr 21, 2020

Justin_Reef said:
I am treating my 7" Porcupine Puffer for IP and I believe focus is having a tough time binding Metroplex to meaty foods. I am mostly feeding the puffer chopped up squid at the moment because it is the only food that he eats without making a huge mess. However, due to the fact that squid seems less 'porous' than other types of seafood meat, I feel like the focus may not be working well to bind the Metroplex. I soak the squid for up to a few hours and when I drop it in the QT for him to eat, there is a pretty big cloud that comes off the food into the water.

Does anyone have experience using focus with meaty foods?

I do think he is getting some of the Metroplex because his condition has improved but it seems to be improving very slowly. I also tried to use Focus and Metro with prawns but the same thing happened. He is a large fish and won't look twice at smaller foods like pellets or mysis so that is not an option.

Have you tried using Masstick as the binder? It's really sticky. Might work better for your particular issue.

Screen Shot 2020-01-08 at 10.04.31 AM.png

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

I have another question. Sorry if this sounds dumb...

I forgot to mention that he is also in hypo for ich. This poor puffer has been though a lot recently. Luckily the hypo seems to be going well, he has not had any signs of ich for 4 weeks now. I was not willing to use cupramine so hypo was the best option, even if it is not always the most reliable one.

Anyways, here is the dumb question. Is there any chance that the bacterial infection could get better if I begin to raise the salinity? I don't know why this thought popped into my head but since I am having such a hard time getting any antibiotics, I have to try something. I realize this is not likely to change anything but just a thought.

I feel like if I could get him back into his display tank, he would have better water quality and could eat more which might give him a better chance at fighting off this infection but then I risk not allowing the display to go fallow long enough. It has only been fallow for 4 weeks.

Argh, I am pretty frustrated that I know what I need to do to help this puffer but I just can't get the medications!

Big G · Apr 21, 2020

Hypo can be somewhat stressful on fish if the levels drop below 1.009
Studies have show that with some fish being more sensitive to those drops below 1.009 can experience difficulty with their renal system. And if continued, renal failure can occur.

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

Big G said:
Hypo can be somewhat stressful on fish if the levels drop below 1.009
Studies have show that with some fish being more sensitive to those drops below 1.009 can experience difficulty with their renal system. And if continued, renal failure can occur.

Good to know, thanks. I did not see any signs of distress while in hypo. Even with the internal parasites and bacterial infections, I am not seeing any change in the fishes behavior. He is hungry, active, ect. Having said that, this worries me so I will start to raise the salinity.

I was lucky enough to find more Kanaplex today. I also got some Maracyn. I assume I should just use the Kanaplex for now?

He has cloudy eyes, not entirely cloudy, more like one patch on each eye. It looks thick, like it's stuck to the outside of his eye. He had some frayed fins which have mostly grown back but now I am seeing brown blotches on his fins again which seemed to be the indicator that he was getting fin rot last time.

What do you all think?

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

Forgot to mention that I assuming this is likely a gram positive infection which is why I got the Maracyn. I was not able to get Maracyn 2 or I would have.

Big G · Apr 21, 2020

Maracyn aka erythromycin, can be pretty harsh on a bio filter.

Justin_Reef · Apr 21, 2020

Big G said:
Maracyn aka erythromycin, can be pretty harsh on a bio filter.

My QT was set up very last minute and does not have any bio filter. I am relying on daily 25G water changes (50% volume).

Actually that brings up another point. Kanaplex says to do a treatment every 2 days for up to 3 treatments. However, I need to change 50% of my QT water each day to keep ammonia safe. Big puffer and even eating half of what he would in his display, ammonia builds up fast.

How would I deal with this? I was going to do a 'half' treatment after each water change since I have removed half the water. I know this isn't exactly how it works but does this sound ok?

Justin_Reef · Apr 22, 2020

If anyone can answer my previous question, I would appreciate it. I am going to be doing my daily water change soon and would like to know how much kanaplex to add afterwards.

Also, would there be any benefit to using Maracyn at the same time? It is NOT Maracyn2.

Big G · Apr 22, 2020

I wouldn't recommend doing a half dose each day. The dosage is designed to work at the recommended level.

Maracyn (erythromycin) could make the water quality issue worse. I only use it as a 30 minute bath these days.

Justin_Reef · Apr 22, 2020

Big G said:
I wouldn't recommend doing a half dose each day. The dosage is designed to work at the recommended level.

Maracyn (erythromycin) could make the water quality issue worse. I only use it as a 30 minute bath these days.

Do you have any recommendation? Would it just be best to do the daily water changes and stick to the recommended dosing? Meaning that every second day the meds in the tank are diluted? I don't really see that as very effective but I guess it's safer?

I don't have the option to skip the water changes.