For a beginner: AIO, "PNP," or Build-your-own?

[mattzang]

Matt, your LFS had the SCA 50 w/ solid-wood stand? Was it an SCA stand, or some other stand? I didn't think SCA makes solid-wood stands for anything smaller than their 100 gallon systems.

I also JUST noticed that Red Sea has a v3 sump which I like quite a bit. Really like the layout of Sharisnewreeftank's build. Hmm...

I'm not sure, doesn't SCA do a solid wood stand option now? Or is that only for the bigger tanks? Bummer if true

I think some people said their newer MDF stands are.. better.... I'd find a solid wood stand somewhere. I try to keep everything dry, but I always manage to get water everywhere. Anytime my hands are in the tank, there's dripping. So MDF, as I understand it, isn't overly waterproof, which seems scary.

 

[robodude666]

Also took a look at waterbox aquariums. Looks interesting, but they also use laminated plywood for their stands... maybe non-solid wood isn't so bad?

I also came across the fact the Red Sea MAX E-Series supports an external sump upgrade for $95. Although pricing looks very similar to the regular Reefer if you take into account the price of the lighting, pump, and basic skimmer it includes.. Hmm.

 

[robodude666]

For AIOs, besides the equipment you have available to you, does the built-in filtration provide any significant limitations to what stocking you can maintain?

I'm guessing an AIO would require more frequent water changes than a tank with an oversize sump.

 

[Sailingeric]

If you want bigger but don't want to spend a lot of money up front, look on craiglist for a used. I got a 75 gallon tank and stand that included most of the stuff I needed to get started in SW for $150. Since I have spent money a decent lights and a Varios 4 pump. But before livestock I am in for less than $1000. If you start with a fish only tank you could be in less than $500. I like DYI the pumping because I know what all the pipes go to and how it all works.

 

[Xandernfs]

I think I'm echoing what most have said. I am not a fan of the AIO/PnP since there are always clever ways to make them superior. That being said, I would lean towards RSR or Waterbox since everything is set up and ready to go as far plumbing. I like the fact that with these you add your own lighting, pumps, return, etc. This way it's set up how you want it. You can also do upgrades to things as you go. I started my RSR250 with 2 Kessil 160s and went to the AP700. I'm going to add T5s to it in a month or so. You don't really have this option with something like a BioCube or NanoCube.

I would also suggest looking at used. Unfortunately most things in this hobby don't hold value well and you can get slightly used items for a great price.

 

[tankstudy]

If your tight on a budget, the PNP systems are good. They do require some slight adjustments to reduce noise or increase water flow but overall, it's cheaper than the high end dollar systems but will produce you just as good results.

If your leaning towards the AIO, my recommendation is to stock it lightly with coral. The issue with AIO's is that when they max out with coral, water parameters swing very heavily because they don't have a sump with extra water. My alkalinity swings as much as 2 dkh a day and as of right now, some corals are not tolerating that. Tonight I'll actually be moving everything over to my 45 shallow w/ a sump.

With the PNP systems, you'll have the sump which is an extra water reservoir that will really help to keep your water parameters stay stable when things really grow out. In the long run, the PNP or any system with a sump is going to be a lot easier to maintain and less worries because you have a little more room in keeping water parameters stable.

 

[Res_Ipsa]

@robodude666 - Some pretty good responses here so far. I'll throw in my $0.02 as I am just starting on my first SW tank as well.

I looked hard in my "local" area and found a reefer who was swapping his 60 gallon AIO for a couple smaller tanks. The tank was unmodified and I paid about 50% the new price. If you're going to do some upgrades to the tank anyways, finding someone who is selling their used gear helps tremendously. I bought two super clean return pumps used since the price made it worth the gamble that one may fail. Lights were another item I purchased slightly used since the higher quality lights appear to be fairly robust for a few years.

I chose an AIO because I figured for my first system I would benefit from the lack of complexity of having a traditional sump, I wanted a more leak-resistant option for a tank, I liked the AIO "clean" look, and the space limitations meant I couldn't go overboard jamming gadgets and whizbangs into the relatively small sump.

 

[robodude666]

Res_Ipsa thanks for the comments! I've been monitoring craigslist for a few months now (mostly looking for a new freshwater tank), but unfortunately most of the used tanks I've seen are either really small (5-10 gallons), in poor condition, or the asking price is way too high. I do regret not acting on a 150 gallon reef w/ stand+livestock+equipment for $750... but alas, that was when I wasn't thinking about starting a reef tank.

When I posted this thread, I was considering starting with an AIO, but I've come to terms that as soon as I get it setup I'm going to want to customize the equipment and will be disappointed in either the lack of options or the hoops required. If I do find an AIO priced well I may still consider it. But...

Unless I DO find something else, I've so far decided on a Red Sea Reefer 250 or 350, and leaning more towards the 350 for some additional equipment space. I've reorganized furniture in my living room, and am no longer limited to a hard 36"-wide tank. Having external equipment or ATO cabinets should no longer be a major issue for me.

I've decided to wait until the March time frame in case the IRS wants to give me money this year . In the meantime, I'm slowly saving up for the Red Sea Reefer.

 

[ozborn99]

This about sums it up, they are quality high end systems, I have the Max S 650 and they are all stunning. But it’s your money and your choice.

The refers don’t include equipment as far as I know, you add what you want, but look at the Max series if you want complete systems

https://www.redseafish.com/aquarium-systems/max-aquarium-systems/max-nano/

I can’t comment on the others you mention as I’ve only ever had Red Sea, a Max E260 before the current tank

On the filter socks, there just standard I think 4 inch, and readily available so there is no issues there

Did you like your emax260?

I've been looking heavily at it with the below sump kit. Just wasn't sure if there's any hang-ups.