Fowleri tang disease

Michaelreef · Sep 14, 2021

I use seachem's cupramine,as well as seachem's multitest copper.

Michaelreef · Sep 14, 2021

nereefpat said:
Are you measuring that in the tank with a copper test kit? The rock and sand will absorb some and make the concentration tricky.

Could be flukes. Copper isn't standard procedure for those. A dip, for relief, followed by some dewormer like PraziPro, is the common treatment. You can put Prazi in the display. I have also mixed it with copper in a hospital tank with no problem.

Are you sure you can use another drug with copper?
Won't they be harmful?
Is a fresh water bath effective?

vetteguy53081 · Sep 14, 2021

Can’t open video on my phone. Sounds like it may be flukes.
Give it a 5 minute freshwater dip preferably in a dark bucket. Thereafter, return it to display tank and increase oxygen
Look on bottom of bucket for what looks like sesame seeds or fish scales. If so- flukes

nereefpat · Sep 15, 2021

Michaelreef said:
Are you sure you can use another drug with copper?
Won't they be harmful?
Is a fresh water bath effective?

I routinely use Prazi Pro with Copper Power in my QTs. Cupramine is slightly different.

FW dip may give some relief for certain diseases. It is a good diagnostic test for flukes, as you can see the things fall off. Mr Hemdal would have more experience with dips.

Michaelreef · Sep 15, 2021

Michaelreef said:
I use seachem's cupramine,as well as seachem's multitest copper.

Unfortunately, when I gave it a fresh water bath for less than 2 minutes, it died.
I do not know exactly whether it was due to the progression of the disease or due to the fact that he was shocked when he was taken.
But in the fresh water it was not less than 2 minutes and after returning to the tank, he went to the bottom of the aquarium and could not keep his balance.
He stopped breathing. This is very painful for me, because it was my favorite fish and I kept it from a young age.
I also saw his death and his inability to breathe, and this is annoying.
I took pictures of the gills and its body.
Please guide me to know what is the cause of the disease?
I'm worried about my other fish.

Miami Reef · Sep 15, 2021

Michaelreef said:
Unfortunately, when I gave it a fresh water bath for less than 2 minutes, it died.
I do not know exactly whether it was due to the progression of the disease or due to the fact that he was shocked when he was taken.
But in the fresh water it was not less than 2 minutes and after returning to the tank, he went to the bottom of the aquarium and could not keep his balance.
He stopped breathing. This is very painful for me, because it was my favorite fish and I kept it from a young age.
I also saw his death and his inability to breathe, and this is annoying.
I took pictures of the gills and its body.
Please guide me to know what is the cause of the disease?
I'm worried about my other fish.

Did you maintain proper temp in freshwater bath? Did you heavily aerate bath 30 minutes prior to adding fish?

I see discoloration which implies bacterial infection. Often comes secondary to wounds from aggression or parasites like flukes/ich.

Michaelreef · Sep 15, 2021

Miami Reef said:
Did you maintain proper temp in freshwater bath? Did you heavily aerate bath 30 minutes prior to adding fish?

I see discoloration which implies bacterial infection. Often comes secondary to wounds from aggression or parasites like flukes/ich.

Yes
The water temperature was the same.
No temperature shock.
I did proper aeration.

Michaelreef · Sep 15, 2021

Michaelreef said:
Yes
The water temperature was the same.
No temperature shock.
I did proper aeration.

None of the fish have or do not have a skin sign that indicates a ich disease.

Jay Hemdal · Sep 15, 2021

Michaelreef said:
Unfortunately, when I gave it a fresh water bath for less than 2 minutes, it died.
I do not know exactly whether it was due to the progression of the disease or due to the fact that he was shocked when he was taken.
But in the fresh water it was not less than 2 minutes and after returning to the tank, he went to the bottom of the aquarium and could not keep his balance.
He stopped breathing. This is very painful for me, because it was my favorite fish and I kept it from a young age.
I also saw his death and his inability to breathe, and this is annoying.
I took pictures of the gills and its body.
Please guide me to know what is the cause of the disease?
I'm worried about my other fish.

Sorry to hear.

While FW dips are not without some risk, the only risk of death when done properly (as you seem to have done) is when a fish is already too far gone. Basically, a fish that dies from a FW dip was destined to die at some point soon anyway.

You can't really tell anything from the skin unless you use a microscope. The gills do seem to give some information though: they are pale, which indicates anemia. I can also see some vague white areas in the gills. That is a symptom of gill disease - usually flukes, but possibly bacterial. Protozoan issues are less likely since the fish is in Cupramine at 0.50.

At this point, damage control would be to examine all other fish in the tank for any symptoms, even if they seem unrelated. Then, you need to decide if you are going to stay the course with the copper, or remove it and dose the tank with praziquantel for flukes.

Jay

Michaelreef · Sep 29, 2021

I need immediate help.
The condition of my tank is messed up.
I tried to reduce the parameters by siphoning but it did not have a significant effect.
I saw dead blood stains on the body of the Vagabond butterfly. So I had to use the Paraguard bath. After the bath, the spots faded, but at the junction of the fins with the body, there was inflammation and swelling and he could not swim well.
Cupramine is currently in the tank.

Michaelreef · Sep 29, 2021

These are the results of the tests

Michaelreef said:
I need immediate help.
The condition of my tank is messed up.
I tried to reduce the parameters by siphoning but it did not have a significant effect.
I saw dead blood stains on the body of the Vagabond butterfly. So I had to use the Paraguard bath. After the bath, the spots faded, but at the junction of the fins with the body, there was inflammation and swelling and he could not swim well.
Cupramine

Jay Hemdal · Sep 29, 2021

Michaelreef said:
These are the results of the tests

Hello,

What have you done for the past two weeks? Did you ever dose the tank with praziquantel? In my last post on 9/15, I suggested that you needed to consider praziquantel.

Jay

Michaelreef · Sep 29, 2021

I completed the copper treatment.
Now I have to change more than 40% of the water.
Of course, I added Seed bacteria.
The problem with my butterfly seems to be something else.
Can I use a phosphate absorber to quickly reduce phosphate when copper is in the water?
Another question:
Is it possible to paraguard the fish in another container while the copper is in the tank? And is this effective for my butterfly fish?
What medicine do you recommend if the disease is bacterial? Can I use it as a bath?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 29, 2021

Michaelreef said:
I completed the copper treatment.
Now I have to change more than 40% of the water.
Of course, I added Seed bacteria.
The problem with my butterfly seems to be something else.
Can I use a phosphate absorber to quickly reduce phosphate when copper is in the water?
Another question:
Is it possible to paraguard the fish in another container while the copper is in the tank? And is this effective for my butterfly fish?
What medicine do you recommend if the disease is bacterial? Can I use it as a bath?

There is no way for me to be 100% correct, but I think you should explore using praziquantel. Paraguard has poor results when used in marine systems, and I would NOT dose that and copper on the same fish, even if in different tanks. Sorry, I can't tell you what phosphate reducer would do to copper - but high phosphate isn't causing the problem with your fish.

Jay

vetteguy53081 · Sep 29, 2021

Agree on paraguard being Ineffective.
What is age of tank? If newer, being subject to a series of spikes, this may be part of the issue as these are Not good First fish

Michaelreef · Sep 30, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
There is no way for me to be 100% correct, but I think you should explore using praziquantel. Paraguard has poor results when used in marine systems, and I would NOT dose that and copper on the same fish, even if in different tanks. Sorry, I can't tell you what phosphate reducer would do to copper - but high phosphate isn't causing the problem with your fish.

Jay

Ok,thank's
Did you notice butterfly disease?
Is it bacterial?
What treatment do you suggest?

Michaelreef · Sep 30, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Agree on paraguard being Ineffective.
What is age of tank? If newer, being subject to a series of spikes, this may be part of the issue as these are Not good First fish

More than 3 years of aquarium life passed.

vetteguy53081 · Sep 30, 2021

Michaelreef said:
More than 3 years of aquarium life passed.

That’s painful

LaloJ · Oct 5, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Agree on paraguard being Ineffective.
What is age of tank? If newer, being subject to a series of spikes, this may be part of the issue as these are Not good First fish

I know that paraguard is ineffective, I tested it on an emperor angelfish with cryptocarion and even though it "cleaned" it, the points came back again and apparently with velvet included, the fish died. I heard that it can be used as a prophylactic, but if not, then what does it work for?

vetteguy53081 · Oct 5, 2021

LaloJ said:
I know that paraguard is ineffective, I tested it on an emperor angelfish with cryptocarion and even though it "cleaned" it, the points came back again and apparently with velvet included, the fish died. I heard that it can be used as a prophylactic, but if not, then what does it work for?

Coppersafe is best for angels and tangs