FOWLR help with ich and black spots

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

I have two issues currently. I have a 300 gallon HEAVILY stocked FOWLR that includes tangs, triggers, angels, puffers and eels (please dont judge

) I have been dealing with ich with 2 failed attempts at hyposalinity. Even with an autotop off and testing, as soon as i bring the salinity back up i see white spots again. And now i have a blue tang that has black flatworms. So my question is...should i treat with prazipro first? how safe is it to treat the display tank? and then should i treat with copper to get rid of the ich once and for all. Is copper safe for the puffers and eels? Please help, thanks

blaxsun · Dec 20, 2022

#fishmedic

threebuoys · Dec 20, 2022

Please describe the hyposalinity process you followed.

nereefpat · Dec 20, 2022

Welcome.

Prazi is safe for a display tank, but according to Jay, it doesn't always work for Turbellarian infections. I think it would be worth a try. A formalin dip would cure the fish, but the aquarium would still have the parasite. Hypo may do something; I'm not sure.

threebuoys said:
Please describe the hyposalinity process you followed.

Yes, specifically:
What salinity?
How are you measuring that?
How long did the hypo last?

Copper may be the best way, but I'd like to hear more about the hypo process first.

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

1.009 tested with 2 different hydrometers. rodi water changes with ph buffer. auto top off. was in hypo for over a month, 2-3 weeks of hypo after i didnt see any white spots. etc etc...my best guess is the first time I didnt have it at 1.009 so it didnt work, and maybe the second time i did it, i didnt do it long enough. not sure

vetteguy53081 · Dec 20, 2022

robbym89 said:
1.009 tested with 2 different hydrometers. rodi water changes with ph buffer. auto top off. was in hypo for over a month, 2-3 weeks of hypo after i didnt see any white spots. etc etc...my best guess is the first time I didnt have it at 1.009 so it didnt work, and maybe the second time i did it, i didnt do it long enough. not sure

I dont find hypo to be 100% . Best recourse is standard treatment method:
You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

I mean sure, a text book way to do it. But realistically, how tf am i going to QT 20 fish and eels out of the 300 gallon for 30 days, all while leaving the 300 gallon fallow for 2 months lol.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 20, 2022

robbym89 said:
I mean sure, a text book way to do it. But realistically, how tf am i going to QT 20 fish and eels out of the 300 gallon for 30 days, all while leaving the 300 gallon fallow for 2 months lol.

Sounds like you did hypo correctly. I usually go 30 days beyond the date that I last saw spots on the fish.

How much carbonate rock is in the FOWLR? Eels will tolerate coppersafe (might go off feed) but I'd be worried that with a lot or rock, you will have difficulty keeping the copper level up, and then, the LR will have copper in it and be no good for reef tanks at a later date.

Prazi really doesn't work well for black turbellarians. Hypo does work o.k. though.

Please don't be insulted, but are you 100% confident with your diagnosis? We've had some cases recently where the poster says, "my fish have ich" and we chase after it, only to learn the fish didn't have ich at all.....

Jay

nereefpat · Dec 20, 2022

Yeah, I'd be awful tempted to copper the tank, using Copper Power or Copper Safe & not Cupramine (ionic copper). You would need a Hanna Copper tester, because sand and rock will absorb some of the medication.

How sick are the fish? Everyone acting reasonably okay? Do you have pics?

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Sounds like you did hypo correctly. I usually go 30 days beyond the date that I last saw spots on the fish.

How much carbonate rock is in the FOWLR? Eels will tolerate coppersafe (might go off feed) but I'd be worried that with a lot or rock, you will have difficulty keeping the copper level up, and then, the LR will have copper in it and be no good for reef tanks at a later date.

Prazi really doesn't work well for black turbellarians. Hypo does work o.k. though.

Please don't be insulted, but are you 100% confident with your diagnosis? We've had some cases recently where the poster says, "my fish have ich" and we chase after it, only to learn the fish didn't have ich at all.....

Jay

Im not expert, ill attach a pic of my achilles tang who has the most spots. Everyone seems fine, except heightened tang aggression since the salinity level came back up to 1.020. Ill attach a pic of the whole tank so you can see how much rock is in there, not sure what you would consider a lot or a little.

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

I feel like the worms came during hypo, because i just got it to 1.020 the other day, i didnt want to use prazi during hypo. I am not opposed to trying it one more time, not like its expensive to do or anything. I lost two clown trigger fish during each round though, im not sure if hypo had anything to do with it. But they were fine the whole time and just dropped dead like they were smitten by the lord himself. So i picked up a new one from someone who had an established tank, so i dont wanna lose him.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 20, 2022

robbym89 said:
I feel like the worms came during hypo, because i just got it to 1.020 the other day, i didnt want to use prazi during hypo. I am not opposed to trying it one more time, not like its expensive to do or anything. I lost two clown trigger fish during each round though, im not sure if hypo had anything to do with it. But they were fine the whole time and just dropped dead like they were smitten by the lord himself. So i picked up a new one from someone who had an established tank, so i dont wanna lose him.

The Achilles does probably have ich. That tank has a LOT of rock and coral sand that is going to absorb lots of copper.
Have you considered chloroquine?
Jay

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

I have never heard of that. I am up for anything that can treat the whole tank safely

robbym89 · Dec 20, 2022

I just searched it and you said its not good for lion fish? i have one of those too...

Jay Hemdal · Dec 21, 2022

robbym89 said:
I just searched it and you said its not good for lion fish? i have one of those too...

Not at full dose, but you should be able to treat at 12 mg/l. Overall, I prefer copper, but the chloroquine will keep the rocks from being an issue.

Jay

robbym89 · Dec 21, 2022

Whats the longest the tank can be at 1.009 for the fish to be okay? I'd rather try hypo one more time and really extend it to see if that works

Jay Hemdal · Dec 21, 2022

robbym89 said:
Whats the longest the tank can be at 1.009 for the fish to be okay? I'd rather try hypo one more time and really extend it to see if that works

That depends on the species, their size, how healthy their kidneys are, etc. I try to keep it to 35 days maximum unless the fish are tolerant (inshore species, brackish water).
Jay