Hello I have a question I was hoping I could get some help with. I bought a fox face and quarantined it after quarantine I put it in my 90 gallon where I noticed some white spots after a few days so I put it back in quarantine where I treated it for ich. For the next thirty days I treated it and after the treatment no spots so I put it back in the 90 and after 4 days their are spots again I'm really confused tho is their a chance this isn't ich? I had ich in a freshwater and it was highly contagious and killed every fish in their in a week with hundreds of spots and this fish hasn't gotten my clownfish or fridmani sick and it only gets like 10 spots at its worst and its stays a beautiful color eats normal and isn't rubbing against anything
Fox face ich
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kschweer
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Welcome to R2R!!! @Humblefish @melypr1985 or @3FordFamily are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to fish and disease.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Hi there! Welcome to R2R!
You've now QT'd this fish twice? Did you treat with any meds the first time around? Which meds and for how long? This second round.... how long did you treat for and with what meds? If you have a picture, that's always helpful.
The first time I quarantined I didn't Medicate the second time when it came back I did Medicate with paraguard a few sites I've looked at have told me to completely empty the tank but honestly my fridmani can fit in every rock hole and is as fast as lightning their is no way I could ever catch him and I've had the tank for 6 months only have 3 fish (2 of which I've had for years) I've done prob a month or two of fighting ich and the thought of shutting down tank for 2 months makes me sick cause I would literally have to take out every rock and most of water to catch this fish and I don't know how I could possibly qt 3 fish at once is their any other way?
ZoaCollector
Aquatic Specialist
Sorry didn't read the whole post.
The ich can reside in the gills of the other fish even if they don't show symptoms.
Also the cysts can take a while to hatch, and the free swimming stage can live without host for a while.
As per treatment goes, you can setup a QT and run furan 2 and quick ich x. Don't feed while using this
The ich can reside in the gills of the other fish even if they don't show symptoms.
Also the cysts can take a while to hatch, and the free swimming stage can live without host for a while.
As per treatment goes, you can setup a QT and run furan 2 and quick ich x. Don't feed while using this
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melypr1985
totally addicted
Ok. so you would need to use copper, tank transfer method or hyposalinity to treat for ich. That's why he still has it. The very best way to go is to empty the tank and catch the fish. Believe me I know how bad it sucks to do, I just did that and have about 22 days out of 76 days left to go before I can put my fish back in the tank. It's ruff, but it's the best way to KNOW for sure it's taken care of. If you can remove your inverts and corals you could do Hypo in tank but I'm not a fan of that because there are hypo resistant strains of ich out there. Plus, its very hard to keep the salinity just perfect continuously to be effective. So, here are the ways to treat ich.
Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.
How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.
CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:
- Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
- Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
- For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.
Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.
Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.
How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.
One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.
Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish.
Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)
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Thank you so much for all of this info it sounds like I will be removing all fish soon and leaving the tank empty as soon as I can I will do more research on those treatment options to see which one is best for my situation but it sounds like I'll go a copper option in quarantine
melypr1985
totally addicted
It's unfortunate for sure. Man! It was a pain to do. I had to remove all the rock and corals to get the fish out. I have a yellow coris wrasse and a pigmy angel that were the worst. The clowns? easy! The tangs? Easy! lol I wish you all the best. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you come up with and check out the disease part of the forum for more info.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Great choice!
This article will help with your research: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/
And this article provides more detailed info about marine ich and it's life cycle: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/understanding-ich.188770/
And this article provides more detailed info about marine ich and it's life cycle: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/understanding-ich.188770/
miyags
Valuable Member
I use cupramine,with the (MultiTest Copper test kit, from Seachem) and prazipro. to treat. It was the easiest way for me. Have plenty of saltwater on hand for water changes.Oh grab an ammonia alert badge from Seachm also. Ammonia is the big killer in QT
