Fox Face not eating

[Mini Coop]

@melypr1985 Well, it is a very sad day. I lost one of the fire fish. I knew he didn't look good. The other fire fish, sailfin and fox are looking ok. Going to test the water again here in a little bit. Fox ate Nori this morning, pellets this afternoon, and i will feed shrimp tonight (less because I think only the sailfin is eating it). So sad. The fire fish never got ick. I should have put them in the main tank before treatment, I should have increased copper levels slowly - things I didn't know. So much of this hobby is trial and error and no matter how much research I do and people I talk to, is seems as if I have to learn things the hard way. Feeling sad, but determined to have my beautiful relaxing tank.

 

[Maritimer]

So very sorry for your firefish ... but heartened to hear that your foxface is eating again!

Treating diseases is never fun, and rarely goes smoothly . . .

~Bruce

 

[Mini Coop]

So very sorry for your firefish ... but heartened to hear that your foxface is eating again!

Treating diseases is never fun, and rarely goes smoothly . . .

~Bruce

Thanks my friend.

 

[melypr1985]

@melypr1985 Well, it is a very sad day. I lost one of the fire fish. I knew he didn't look good. The other fire fish, sailfin and fox are looking ok. Going to test the water again here in a little bit. Fox ate Nori this morning, pellets this afternoon, and i will feed shrimp tonight (less because I think only the sailfin is eating it). So sad. The fire fish never got ick. I should have put them in the main tank before treatment, I should have increased copper levels slowly - things I didn't know. So much of this hobby is trial and error and no matter how much research I do and people I talk to, is seems as if I have to learn things the hard way. Feeling sad, but determined to have my beautiful relaxing tank.

I'm so sorry sweetie. That is sad, but honestly you're doing very good here. Considering the copper levels went up so quick I think this is a pretty good result considering it could be much worse. I'm glad you're going this route and treating them before putting them back. Even if they firefish had never showed signs of ick, he had it and would have taken it to the display with him. I know it's sad, but you went through all the trouble to do the fallow period and get all the fish out. We really don't want to make that mean nothing by putting ick right back into the tank right? Hold your head up girly... You can do this! Think of everything you are learning right now that will help save so many fish you buy in the future. Actually probably only a few since your fish will live a long time and won't need to be replaced as often.

 

[Mini Coop]

@melypr1985 - Since you have been the one mostly following this, I thought I would ask you. Fish in the QT have been in for 19 days with copper level maintained at 2.0 consistently. I have noticed over the past few days, the Sailfin picking on the foxface. She looks like she is nipping at him. I am almost feeling like I am needing to get them separated. Neither had shown signs of ick since moved to QT, and none have shown signs still since beginning copper treatment. The lady at the local fish store said that they should be fine after 2 weeks in copper, if they haven't shown any signs of ick since they started (which, the firefish never showed signs, he was treated as a precaution) They have been in QT since October 5, almost 12 weeks.
1. Any idea why she would be picking on the foxface?
2. Is it ok to go ahead and move them to display? (Display now has 2 clowns in it) After this long, I don't want to rush it, but also don't want to risk losing the fox in QT either. I'm sure they are ready for more room!
3. If so, or when I move them, should I move them all at the same time, or in a certain order? If I need to move them at different times, how long in between should I wait?
4. I lost the one purple firefish - I heard somewhere that they need a pair - do i need to get another one?
5. I need to do the drip method and move with a net so to not transfer any water with the copper in it to the DT - correct?

 

[Brew12]

@melypr1985 - Since you have been the one mostly following this, I thought I would ask you. Fish in the QT have been in for 19 days with copper level maintained at 2.0 consistently. I have noticed over the past few days, the Sailfin picking on the foxface. She looks like she is nipping at him. I am almost feeling like I am needing to get them separated. Neither had shown signs of ick since moved to QT, and none have shown signs still since beginning copper treatment. The lady at the local fish store said that they should be fine after 2 weeks in copper, if they haven't shown any signs of ick since they started (which, the firefish never showed signs, he was treated as a precaution) They have been in QT since October 5, almost 12 weeks.
1. Any idea why she would be picking on the foxface?
2. Is it ok to go ahead and move them to display? (Display now has 2 clowns in it) After this long, I don't want to rush it, but also don't want to risk losing the fox in QT either. I'm sure they are ready for more room!
3. If so, or when I move them, should I move them all at the same time, or in a certain order? If I need to move them at different times, how long in between should I wait?
4. I lost the one purple firefish - I heard somewhere that they need a pair - do i need to get another one?
5. I need to do the drip method and move with a net so to not transfer any water with the copper in it to the DT - correct?

Tangs and Foxfaces are both algae eaters so they see each other as competition for food.

It is always best to observe again once the copper is done, but I would move them to the DT now.

If you transfer the fish out of the copper tank into a new tank then the 14 days in copper is enough. The 30 days is based on pulling the copper out of the tank and watching them for another week or two. I would try to add the Foxface before the Tang by at least a few hours. Foxface tend to be less aggressive than Tangs.

Firefish may actually do better as singles than pairs. You may have lost one because of aggression.

If your Temp and SG match between your DT and QT I would literally just scoop and dump. I prefer a colander over a net. Nets can catch on fish spines.

 

[melypr1985]

1. Any idea why she would be picking on the foxface?
2. Is it ok to go ahead and move them to display? (Display now has 2 clowns in it) After this long, I don't want to rush it, but also don't want to risk losing the fox in QT either. I'm sure they are ready for more room!
3. If so, or when I move them, should I move them all at the same time, or in a certain order? If I need to move them at different times, how long in between should I wait?
4. I lost the one purple firefish - I heard somewhere that they need a pair - do i need to get another one?
5. I need to do the drip method and move with a net so to not transfer any water with the copper in it to the DT - correct?

Hi there! Happy to help.
1. It's simple aggression from being cooped up together in a smaller space.
2. I wouldn't move them to the display just yet. You can, however, move them to a new QT that is clean and sterile for observation without copper. It's recommended to do this for another 2 weeks before adding to the display.
3. When I added my fish back to the display, I did them on or two every couple days. It staggers it some. The foxface (as brew said) should go before the tang.
4. Firefish are fine on their own. You dont' need a pair and often pairs are difficult to make separately since it's very difficult to tell who is female and who is male.
5. again I agree with brew. If temp and salinity match, then just move them over using a colander or net. No muss, no fuss and less stress.

 

[Mini Coop]

@Brew12 @melypr1985 ok! I took a combo of your advice. I don't have another tank to move the fish to a clean QT. So, the fox was being picked on all day yesterday so we went ahead and moved him to DT. He was in 2.0 copper treatment for 20 days. We will monitor him closely. The colander worked marvelously!! You should have seen me running gently with him to the DT!!! It was quite the sight!
He seems to be doing very well. Scared the crap out of my 2 baby clowns who have had the tank to themselves for a month when he finally came out!!
Did a water change in QT to bring the copper levels down for the sailfin and the fire fish for a couple of days, and we will watch them and transfer them over as recommended every couple of days. Should I transfer the fire fish first?
Seriously, you guys are amazing. I can't wait to have fish back in my tank!! But also have learned the value of patience!!
PS - hubby got me a reef octopus classic 152-s for Christmas!!! So DT is going to be even better!!!

 

[Humblefish]

@Jena Cooper I've been out of the loop for awhile; how long did you go fallow in the DT before adding the foxface?

 

[Brew12]

@Jena Cooper I've been out of the loop for awhile; how long did you go fallow in the DT before adding the foxface?

Earlier she had said

Thank you - yep! Main tank has been fallow for 76 days.

So she should be good from that perspective. Don't remember seeing the history of when the clowns were added but I believe they were already in the DT prior to adding the Foxface.

 

[Mini Coop]

@Jena Cooper I've been out of the loop for awhile; how long did you go fallow in the DT before adding the foxface?

Yes! Tank was fallow for 76 days before I added the clowns (about 3 weeks ago). Then I hadn't done a copper treatment yet, so the fish that had ick stayed in QT for cooper treatment that started 20 days ago. Foxface was moved in yesterday.
Does this sound ok?

 

[Humblefish]

Yes! Tank was fallow for 76 days before I added the clowns (about 3 weeks ago). Then I hadn't done a copper treatment yet, so the fish that had ick stayed in QT for cooper treatment that started 20 days ago. Foxface was moved in yesterday.
Does this sound ok?

It's best to treat with copper for 30 days, and deworm using Prazipro either before or after: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

 

[Mini Coop]

It's best to treat with copper for 30 days, and deworm using Prazipro either before or after: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

Always frustrating and worrisome when I get mixed opinions and reviews. The two above have said that 14 days in Copper is fine, then 14 days of observation in "clean water" after that. Hopefully I didn't mess anything up too bad! I did dose prazipro before copper treatment. The "saving" thing here, I suppose is that the fish have not shown signs of ick since they have been in QT - for over 12 weeks, so the copper was a precaution.
I still have a fire fish and a sailfin in copper - which they have been in for 21 days. The fire fish never showed signs of ick, even with the outbreak in the main tank, but I was advised to treat him since he was in there during the outbreak ( I think both you and @melypr1985 told me to do that). The sailfin has never shown signs since moving to QT.
Do you think I should leave them both in there for 9 more days? I did one dose of prazipro before. Do I need to do 2 more doses after since I didn't do a second dose to the 2 that are still in QT? The foxface has already been moved to DT, so I can't do anything about that. Hopefully he will be fine. I tried to ask questions this time before making any moves. HAHA. But every time I do something, I seem to get different advice after I have done it. LOL. I know there is no perfect answer for everything in this hobby, but want to try to do things right. I think I will start making a decision to do something and then wait a week to actually implement the change Thankful for all of the help no matter what!
#tryingtobeagoodstudent

Also, if you and @melypr1985 see my post about what to do next for my tank with the $$ I got for Christmas, especially knowing my whole story, please weigh in! I have $150 to spend, and my hubby got me a RO152-s protein skimmer for Christmas. On my way! Just need to know what do to next.

 

[Brew12]

Always frustrating and worrisome when I get mixed opinions and reviews. The two above have said that 14 days in Copper is fine, then 14 days of observation in "clean water" after that. Hopefully I didn't mess anything up too bad! I did dose prazipro before copper treatment. The "saving" thing here, I suppose is that the fish have not shown signs of ick since they have been in QT - for over 12 weeks, so the copper was a precaution.
I still have a fire fish and a sailfin in copper - which they have been in for 21 days. The fire fish never showed signs of ick, even with the outbreak in the main tank, but I was advised to treat him since he was in there during the outbreak ( I think both you and @melypr1985 told me to do that). The sailfin has never shown signs since moving to QT.
Do you think I should leave them both in there for 9 more days? I did one dose of prazipro before. Do I need to do 2 more doses after since I didn't do a second dose to the 2 that are still in QT? The foxface has already been moved to DT, so I can't do anything about that. Hopefully he will be fine. I tried to ask questions this time before making any moves. HAHA. But every time I do something, I seem to get different advice after I have done it. LOL. I know there is no perfect answer for everything in this hobby, but want to try to do things right. I think I will start making a decision to do something and then wait a week to actually implement the change Thankful for all of the help no matter what!
#tryingtobeagoodstudent

Also, if you and @melypr1985 see my post about what to do next for my tank with the $$ I got for Christmas, especially knowing my whole story, please weigh in! I have $150 to spend, and my hubby got me a RO152-s protein skimmer for Christmas. On my way! Just need to know what do to next.

I think I'm more concerned about the clown fish than anything. Did you do anything to QT them before adding them to your DT?

 

[Humblefish]

@Jena Cooper 14 days in copper, followed by transfer into a holding tank, is technically long enough. However:

1. This method allows NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. Meaning, if the fish are not maintained in therapeutic copper for the entire 14 days then it can fail. The copper level must be tested each and every day.
2. Not all external parasites (ex. Brooklynella) are treatable with copper, thus the observation period afterwards in a holding tank.

For the above reasons, I prefer if newbies treat with copper for 30 full days as it provides more wiggle room just in case a mistake is made.

(Will write more later.)

 

[Mini Coop]

I think I'm more concerned about the clown fish than anything. Did you do anything to QT them before adding them to your DT?

YES! We have a local person that raises them. I had my coral guy pick them up for me, and he QT'd them for 24 days and treated with prazipro before bringing them to me because my QT was in use.

 

[melypr1985]

@Jena Cooper 14 days in copper, followed by transfer into a holding tank, is technically long enough. However:

1. This method allows NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. Meaning, if the fish are not maintained in therapeutic copper for the entire 14 days then it can fail. The copper level must be tested each and every day.
2. Not all external parasites (ex. Brooklynella) are treatable with copper, thus the observation period afterwards in a holding tank.

For the above reasons, I prefer if newbies treat with copper for 30 full days as it provides more wiggle room just in case a mistake is made.

(Will write more later.)

Yes. This is what I recommended and prefer for beginners, but you gotta do what you're capable of doing.

 

[Mini Coop]

Yes. This is what I recommended and prefer for beginners, but you gotta do what you're capable of doing.

Well, we just got home. Fox has been in DT for about 24 hours. I'm following your instructions and not panicking....and maybe I'm being paranoid. After 3 months in QT, with ZERO signs of ick. 20 days in copper treatment maintained at 2.0 the entire time and checked daily, I feel like I see one white spot on his left fin. Of course this has me sick to my stomach. The 2 clowns are in the DT with no signs of anything. I feel like I see one raised spot in his skin, but he has to be at JUST the right angle and it isn't white from what I can tell (he's still a little skiddish from the move). Is this a "wait and see how he is tomorrow" moment or a "get him back out of there asap" moment? Sigh...I hope I'm overreacting. I just don't even see how this could be possible.

 

[Mini Coop]

Well, we just got home. Fox has been in DT for about 24 hours. I'm following your instructions and not panicking....and maybe I'm being paranoid. After 3 months in QT, with ZERO signs of ick. 20 days in copper treatment maintained at 2.0 the entire time and checked daily, I feel like I see one white spot on his left fin. Of course this has me sick to my stomach. The 2 clowns are in the DT with no signs of anything. I feel like I see one raised spot in his skin, but he has to be at JUST the right angle and it isn't white from what I can tell (he's still a little skiddish from the move). Is this a "wait and see how he is tomorrow" moment or a "get him back out of there asap" moment? Sigh...I hope I'm overreacting. I just don't even see how this could be possible.

@Humblefish

 

[Maritimer]

It's a "wait and see".

After going fallow for 76 days almost a year ago - and upon finally reintroducing fish to the DT, my heart would skip a beat every time I spotted a white dot on one of my fish. Microbubbles? Sand? ICH?!

To date, the dread disease has not reared its ugly heads in my DT - and I don't get the same adrenaline rush when there's a grain of sand stuck to my wrasse's head just after he wakes up . . .

~Bruce