Foxface problem, Ick? Just stress?

[govolsguy31]

Hey guys, I apologize in advance for the length of this post. Just trying to include all info.

I've got a bit of a problem. About two weeks ago I added a small (3" maybe) Blue Hippo Tang to my 90G. I have had a Foxface Lo and a Sailfin Tang in there for a couple months now, similar in size at 4" or 5", best of friends and happy together. Shortly after adding the Blue Hippo, the Sailfin became aggressive towards the Foxface. I figured this was typical behavior as the Sailfin is the boss of the tank and he tends to "spazz" for a day or so whenever anything changes. However, he didn't let up. After 4 or 5 days, the Foxface stayed in hiding most of the day, stayed in pale "camo mode" almost constantly and developed half a dozen white dots on one of his sides. He also lost most of the color in his face. He stopped eating shortly after this.

Day before yesterday, the only way I can describe it, is he turned into a zombie. He came out of "camo mode" and hiding, but was spotty yellow with bleached out blots. White dots still on only one of his sides. He began swimming aimlessly around the tank. Very pale color in his face. Still not eating. After lights out, he's usually the first one to hide for the evening; not now. For the past two nights, he still out swimming slowly around several hours after lights out. My lights go out around 8:30PM and he was still swimming around slowly when I went to bed around 11 last night.

No improvement today. So I decided to QT him. When I stuck the net in the aquarium, he barely reacted. The other fish headed for cover obviously, he didn't even try to get out of the way. Guessing he had Ick or velvet from the stress of the Sailfin's aggression to him over the past two weeks, I performed a freshwater dip for 5 minutes (no flukes came out). This actually seemed to wake him up a little tho. He was breathing heavy during the entire dip (this is my first time doing this, but I've read repeatedly this is normal).

He's now in a 10G QT. He swam around quite a bit for the first hour or so, but is now hiding behind one of the PVC pieces. However, all the white spots are gone, and he looks a little better, although still "marbled camo mode".

No other spots on any other fish in the display. I'll get flack for this, but nothing has been quarantined in the DT, so I guess I'm running a ich management tank. Parameters are all in line and stable:

Salinity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
NO2: 0
No3: basically 0
Phos: .05
Mag: 1360
Cal: 400

Corals and inverts are all fine, along with all the other fish.

Any input or idea what's going on? I didn't get a picture of him before moving him to the QT and he's hiding now and I don't want to mess with him to try to get a picture currently. I can try to get one later this evening or tomorrow if he comes out. I'd like to get him eating before treating with copper. Should that be my line of thought, or should I go ahead and treat? Or is something else entirely going on?

@melypr1985 @Humblefish #reefsquad

 

[melypr1985]

Were his eyes cloudy at all during all this? Was he breathing heavy only during the dip or before? How about now? Are you sure all the dots are gone after the dip?

 

[govolsguy31]

Were his eyes cloudy at all during all this? Was he breathing heavy only during the dip or before? How about now? Are you sure all the dots are gone after the dip?

No, not cloudy but more "pronounced" if that makes sense, like they were wide open. That could have simply been because the rest of him was pale and I just noticed it more.

Only noticed the heavy breathing during the dip, never before and he's relaxed again now. And as far as I can see, all the dots are gone.

 

[govolsguy31]

Were his eyes cloudy at all during all this? Was he breathing heavy only during the dip or before? How about now? Are you sure all the dots are gone after the dip?

Just check on him again and he was out swimming. Hang on, posting a couple pics. But yes, all dots are definitely gone.

 

[govolsguy31]

Sorry the one is sideways. PhotoBucket is almost unusable anymore... Anyway, the QT is down in our den and is only dimly lit at this point, but his pale face has been like this for a couple days. All the white spots are gone.

 

[Salty1962]

Looks like stress, mine was like that for the first week or 2. Feed him an algae sheet to see if he'll acclimate better. When he's backup he should be able to hold his own. My Flame tang chased mine around for a couple of days until he got stung a couple of times and he, for the most part, leaves him alone now. Even my Regal doesn't bother him now.
Good Luck!

 

[govolsguy31]

Looks like stress, mine was like that for the first week or 2. Feed him an algae sheet to see if he'll acclimate better.

I feed the tank nori every day or so, soaked in garlic guard. He ate it like a champ for two months and then quit eating entirely when all this started. He's been in the tank for several months.

 

[melypr1985]

I feed the tank nori every day or so, soaked in garlic guard. He ate it like a champ for two months and then quit eating entirely when all this started. He's been in the tank for several months.

It does sound like something happened. If the spots were only there for a day, then I'm tempted to say that was just sand stuck to him. The stress of being bullied to that extent is definitely going to get him to stop eating and hide more. The paleness, even in the face, is fairly normal for these guys when they are that stressed out. Give him time and watch both him and the others for a couple days. Try to get him eating again and more relaxed while in the QT.

 

[govolsguy31]

It does sound like something happened. If the spots were only there for a day, then I'm tempted to say that was just sand stuck to him. The stress of being bullied to that extent is definitely going to get him to stop eating and hide more. The paleness, even in the face, is fairly normal for these guys when they are that stressed out. Give him time and watch both him and the others for a couple days. Try to get him eating again and more relaxed while in the QT.

The discoloration around those spots was different tho, sort of like redness around a cut or sore (this is an example of a network engineer trying to make a medical diagnosis. LOL).

So give him a few days and see if I can get him eating would be the suggestion at this point, unless the dots come back? No copper?

 

[melypr1985]

The discoloration around those spots was different tho, sort of like redness around a cut or sore (this is an example of a network engineer trying to make a medical diagnosis. LOL).

So give him a few days and see if I can get him eating would be the suggestion at this point, unless the dots come back? No copper?

Yeah, at this point we can't make a real diagnosis. I'd say there may have been redness because he wedged himself in the sand under the rocks. Cause the redness is gone now right? Along with the white dots? I say give him some time. No need for copper just yet.

 

[govolsguy31]

Yeah, at this point we can't make a real diagnosis. I'd say there may have been redness because he wedged himself in the sand under the rocks. Cause the redness is gone now right? Along with the white dots? I say give him some time. No need for copper just yet.

Yea, it was white or pale around the dots, not red (poor attempt at comparing it with a human cut). But yes, all that, along with the spots, are gone.

Thanks again Meredith. I'll keep you posted. If that's the case, I guess I have a different issue on my hands with the fish in the tank and dominance. Guessing it will be even harder to get him back and comfortable in the DT now.

 

[4FordFamily]

Good advice from Meredith. I also am not sure but it seems stressed. If it slowly comes out of its shell I would worry less.

 

[govolsguy31]

Good advice from Meredith. I also am not sure but it seems stressed. If it slowly comes out of its shell I would worry less.

How would you guys reintroduce him back into the DT if he does come around? Would I need to try to catch the sailfin (that's not going to be easy) and QT for a week or two to let him get his bearings?

 

[melypr1985]

I'll let @4FordFamily answer that one. He's better at that than I am for sure.

 

[4FordFamily]

I would personally get the foxface acclimated and then add the other fish to qt and treat them all if you are going to be the safest.

If not, a social acclimation box is helpful in this case. Catching the sailfin to throw in a qt not to treat him assuming it's an ich carrier seems like a waste of time to me, personally.

Now if you had to remove it due to harassment and re-add later that could work as a last resort. I have a mean tang in my sump as we speak until I can add another tang in the near future.

 

[roberthu526]

This is normal. Fox faces are know to be scared and when they are, they try to hide and camouflage. Just keep him in a quiet low traffic location and give it time.
I have had mine for 8 months and he still does this.

 

[govolsguy31]

This is normal. Fox faces are know to be scared and when they are, they try to hide and camouflage. Just keep him in a quiet low traffic location and give it time.
I have had mine for 8 months and he still does this.

I understand they hide and camouflage. Has yours ever gone a week plus not eating? And this wasn't his initial acclimation into the tank. He's been in there for several months, longer than the sailfin even.

 

[5Dsofdodgeball]

Just saw this thread here in 2019. My fox face just started doing this after I added a tang. There doesn’t seem to be any aggression between the two, but the fox face has been very skittish and hasn’t been eating like he used to.

What was the outcome in this case?