Foxface venom lethal to other fish?

[W1ngz]

My 5 year old black ocellaris female really doesn't like my foxface, and would continuously harass it since I introduced it about a month ago. At the least she would try and pick at the algae sheets whenever the foxface was, and I did occasionally catch her charging the foxface to the point where it would turn itself diagonally and sometimes take a more offensive stance moving towards her abruptly, spines out.

At feeding this evening, I found the female clown wedged under a rock, her usual jet black colour was a dull dark grey. Barely breathing, reacted to being poked but otherwise not swimming. I moved her into a 1 gal betta cube to keep her isolated.

Mid afternoon she was fine and active, and following the foxface around as usual. Her partner is fine, still jet black and and no other fish has any spots, dots or discoloration and never has.

Hard to say for sure, but, did she get what was coming to her and manage to get herself stuck with one of the foxfaces spines? And if she did, would it kill?

She and my male clown were the very first saltwater fish I brought home 5 years ago.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Interesting question. Let’s see who knows the answer.

 

[lion king]

Yes it can deadly, but there are a few factors to consider. Beginning with the fox, prime age and health = more deadly. Then the victim, health and certain species will be more effected, which ones I don't know. The severity and placement of the wound, a deep gash that hits an internal organ, likely deadly. Mostly I've seen it go about 50/50, most of the time the victim gets out of the way and the fox is just being defensive. But when they mean business, it's about 50/50.

 

[W1ngz]

I don’t see any gashes, but there is what looks like a puncture wound just behind one eye with discolouration around it. Given that she would charge the foxface, this isn’t surprising I guess.

 

[W1ngz]

No other signs of disease.

 

[lion king]

So she didnt make it then. A foxface wound is usually more apparent. A slight prick would normally not do it.

 

[W1ngz]

Not sure if it makes a difference, but older clownfish, and this is a juvenile/adolescent foxface.
She was about 5 years old, so it's possible it was just natural causes.

 

[lion king]

Clowns actually live well over a decade, i know people with clowns 14-15 years old. But there are many unexplained reasons why our fish just die.

 

[Jesterrace]

My 5 year old black ocellaris female really doesn't like my foxface, and would continuously harass it since I introduced it about a month ago. At the least she would try and pick at the algae sheets whenever the foxface was, and I did occasionally catch her charging the foxface to the point where it would turn itself diagonally and sometimes take a more offensive stance moving towards her abruptly, spines out.

At feeding this evening, I found the female clown wedged under a rock, her usual jet black colour was a dull dark grey. Barely breathing, reacted to being poked but otherwise not swimming. I moved her into a 1 gal betta cube to keep her isolated.

Mid afternoon she was fine and active, and following the foxface around as usual. Her partner is fine, still jet black and and no other fish has any spots, dots or discoloration and never has.

Hard to say for sure, but, did she get what was coming to her and manage to get herself stuck with one of the foxfaces spines? And if she did, would it kill?

She and my male clown were the very first saltwater fish I brought home 5 years ago.

I think like most venomous animals it all depends on the size (smaller are more potent) and the amount of venom injected. My Melanurus Wrasse got into a squabble with my One Spot Foxface over a piece of seaweed and got stung in the the lower jaw and had a visible cyst to prove it and couldn't close it's mouth for about a week. Fortunately my Melanurus Wrasse is a very smart/resourceful fish and figured out how to swim around with it's mouth open and sort of filter feed on the smaller bits of food to keep itself fed while it recovered. It has since bounced back and has been doing well. That said I have heard of some cases of smaller fish being stung and dying within a couple of hours. So I think that there are a number of variables there. The good news is that once a fish goes through that it generally learns it's lesson. My Melanurus doesn't mess with the Foxface much at feeding time anymore.

BTW here is my Melanurus now:

 

[W1ngz]

BTW here is my Melanurus now:

They look like they're buddies the way they swim together without the foxface flashing it's spines. Unfortunately, clownfish are jerks, sometimes too much so for their own good I guess. Looking again at the photo I took and the location of the puncture wound, that's right on or near the edge of the skull. I wouldn't expect to see a gash in that area, but if it pierced the skull, there's no way she stood a chance.

I'll keep watching the tank for a few weeks for any signs it could be anything else, but this morning everyone came out to eat, and there's no sign of any problems with other fish.

 

[maroun.c]

Sorry to hear. If fish has been healthy for 5 yeara then most likely the culprit was the fox face. Although reports of deadly fish stings are very rare.

 

[Jesterrace]

They look like they're buddies the way they swim together without the foxface flashing it's spines. Unfortunately, clownfish are jerks, sometimes too much so for their own good I guess. Looking again at the photo I took and the location of the puncture wound, that's right on or near the edge of the skull. I wouldn't expect to see a gash in that area, but if it pierced the skull, there's no way she stood a chance.

I'll keep watching the tank for a few weeks for any signs it could be anything else, but this morning everyone came out to eat, and there's no sign of any problems with other fish.

My Foxface only flashes his spines when other fish try to steal food from him (Even my Leopard Wrasse has done it), beyond that he limits the flashing to his reflection or when a person walks by the tank and spooks him. Funny thing was that when I first got him my Coral Beauty and Melanurus Wrasse tried to give him the "this is our turf" The Foxface took one look at them and flexed his spines. After the spine flex they did an about face and went the other direction. They got the message. I think the Melanurus just got too focused on getting at the food and got jabbed when the Foxface tried to protect his meal.

 

[Jesterrace]

They look like they're buddies the way they swim together without the foxface flashing it's spines. Unfortunately, clownfish are jerks, sometimes too much so for their own good I guess. Looking again at the photo I took and the location of the puncture wound, that's right on or near the edge of the skull. I wouldn't expect to see a gash in that area, but if it pierced the skull, there's no way she stood a chance.

I'll keep watching the tank for a few weeks for any signs it could be anything else, but this morning everyone came out to eat, and there's no sign of any problems with other fish.

Clownfish are technically Damsels, and Damsels aren't known for being the most gentle of fish (even the more peaceful varieties can be hit and miss). I had a snowflake occ for a little while that was a complete butthead even though he was the last fish added. I have no doubt it contributed to the death of my scissortail dartfish and possibly my Purple Firefish. He tried to bully my Melanurus Wrasse and boy did that little punk regret that. It's the one time I have seen aggression from a fish when I was rooting for him to beat up the clown because he earned every bit of that. Melanurus even grabbed it by the tail and shook it by the tail. The funny thing was the Wrasse backed off the following day and all it took was the occasional reminder nip for the clown to remember who was boss.

 

[Bayareareefer18]

This is interesting. My fox face likes to hang out in my gold nuggets cave and it irritates her. She charges him and all he does is angle himself away and point his spines at her

 

[W1ngz]

He tried to bully my Melanurus Wrasse and boy did that little punk regret that. It's the one time I have seen aggression from a fish when I was rooting for him to beat up the clown because he earned every bit of that. Melanurus even grabbed it by the tail and shook it by the tail. The funny thing was the Wrasse backed off the following day and all it took was the occasional reminder nip for the clown to remember who was boss.

Sounds like the hallways in junior high lol

 

[Jesterrace]

Sounds like the hallways in junior high lol

It really was, the clown literally went after every fish in the tank from the get go. The Diamond Watchman Goby opened it's mouth really wide and snapped at it when it went after him and the Melanurus Wrasse took the abuse for a bit and then decided it had enough of that little punk. Needless to say my tanks have been clown free since that.