Foxface vs tang puzzlement

[mort]

Bear with me briefly but i'm a jolly foreigner and find talk of 40 breeders etc a little confusing as I have no idea of there actually dimensions and a gallon to me is 4.5l so I always have to make a mental calculation when I see US gallons, which is fine as i'm invading your good Countries forums.
So with all that can anyone give their thoughts as to why the general advice is no zebrasoma because the tank is to small, normally 4ft, but a foxface is often excepted as being fine. So my question is really why do people believe a foxface is fine in a smaller tank? even though they can get larger than say a yellow tang. Is it an aggression thing? or does everyone believe foxfaces are less swimmy? Its always puzzled me a little.

TIA

 

[ZachR32]

I think it’s likely another common misconception based on the peaceful nature of most foxfaces. They still get quite larger and are used to the same large grazing areas as tangs in the wild. You might not see the same aggression from a foxface long term in a smaller tank, but it certainly won’t lend to their long term success or overall health

 

[garbled]

The adage from 10+ years ago was that tangs like to dart across the tank and be swimmy, and it was unfair to have a short tank. There was also discussion of a tang's natural territory, which is quite large in nature. I'm honestly not too sure how much of this is fact vs the fact that it's been stated and regurgitated for decades now and accepted as fact.

I know that hippo tangs really like to do the mad dart across the tank, and in my 125 Long (6ft long) mine would frequently have to do some wild maneuver to avoid hitting the end. However, I never saw the yellow tang do this. I've never really seen a foxface do the mad dash thing either, so maybe it's true, and fish like the hippo tang gives us the general statement that tangs are darty?

 

[Jesterrace]

Bear with me briefly but i'm a jolly foreigner and find talk of 40 breeders etc a little confusing as I have no idea of there actually dimensions and a gallon to me is 4.5l so I always have to make a mental calculation when I see US gallons, which is fine as i'm invading your good Countries forums.
So with all that can anyone give their thoughts as to why the general advice is no zebrasoma because the tank is to small, normally 4ft, but a foxface is often excepted as being fine. So my question is really why do people believe a foxface is fine in a smaller tank? even though they can get larger than say a yellow tang. Is it an aggression thing? or does everyone believe foxfaces are less swimmy? Its always puzzled me a little.

TIA

Definitely an aggression issue. The Yellow Tang is far more prone to aggression than a Foxface. I had a YT in my 4 foot long 90 gallon that had only 3 other fish for tankmates and after a month it aggressively was trying to claim the entire tank as it's whole turf. Keep in mind it wasn't even half grown yet. I replaced it with a similar sized One Spot Foxface and it has been a model citizen (other than occasionally spazing out and hiding). Furthermore a full size Yellow Tang is very tall (almost taller than it is long) and so it is going to have a harder time finding cover if it needs it when it gets older.

 

[mort]

The adage from 10+ years ago was that tangs like to dart across the tank and be swimmy, and it was unfair to have a short tank. There was also discussion of a tang's natural territory, which is quite large in nature. I'm honestly not too sure how much of this is fact vs the fact that it's been stated and regurgitated for decades now and accepted as fact.

I know that hippo tangs really like to do the mad dart across the tank, and in my 125 Long (6ft long) mine would frequently have to do some wild maneuver to avoid hitting the end. However, I never saw the yellow tang do this. I've never really seen a foxface do the mad dash thing either, so maybe it's true, and fish like the hippo tang gives us the general statement that tangs are darty?

Thanks, I've seen yellow tangs do a mad dash and what I call a stoppy, where they stop abruptly and push their nose in the air so I can see where the old adage comes from and was my thinking also but didn't want to influence people's replies. I must say though that I don't think it's a reason not to give other species more space but I've never tried it?

 

[mort]

Definitely an aggression issue. The Yellow Tang is far more prone to aggression than a Foxface. I had a YT in my 4 foot long 90 gallon that had only 3 other fish for tankmates and after a month it aggressively was trying to claim the entire tank as it's whole turf. Keep in mind it wasn't even half grown yet. I replaced it with a similar sized One Spot Foxface and it has been a model citizen (other than occasionally spazing out and hiding). Furthermore a full size Yellow Tang is very tall (almost taller than it is long) and so it is going to have a harder time finding cover if it needs it when it gets older.

Interesting but aggression aside, do you feel there is enough space for the foxface longterm? I've generally always erred on the side of caution with my stocking and gone for larger than standard recommendations but also seen what looked like very contented fish in tanks smaller than normal advice would suggest.

 

[lion king]

My observations is their swimming style, you'll find a foxface really doesn't cover a huge amount of real estate and don't tend to swim latereally the entire length of the tank. While tangs are open swimming fish and will cover large amounts of real estate, even saying a 6 foot tank is too small in most cases. There are some tangs that aggression doesn't enter the picture, but the size constraints would create a longterm stressful situation.

Our 40 breeder is actually a 36" tank and there are no tangs that would be comfortable in that tank. Bristletooth tangs are ok for a 48", maybe even a scopas tang, I have one and his style is more similar to the foxface, at least as the individual I have. A one spot foxface, which does stay smaller than the other fowface, would be ok for a 48" tank, again not for our 40 breeder which is a 36" tank.

 

[Jesterrace]

Interesting but aggression aside, do you feel there is enough space for the foxface longterm? I've generally always erred on the side of caution with my stocking and gone for larger than standard recommendations but also seen what looked like very contented fish in tanks smaller than normal advice would suggest.

Honestly I am not 100% sure and only time will tell, I would say that I would not stick a larger sized one in a 4 foot tank as it's likely gotten used to a much larger space, but I do believe that starting with a small to medium sized one (ie 2-4 inches in length) will make it more comfortable with it's environment as it grows. While I agree that ideally a 5-6 foot long tank would be better, I do think that the One Spot Foxface (which is generally a bit smaller than the others) can do well in a larger 4 foot tank, provided that's what it grew up in. I do agree that the 70 gallon minimum recommended by LA is a bit off though. I would say 75-90. I also agree with Lion King on swimming habits. My Yellow Tang in general was a more active side to side (horizontal) swimmer than my foxface is.

 

[mort]

Thanks for the replies. I was always just curious why it was seemed exceptable for them to be kept in a smaller tank because it's different to the advise I see given here in Europe, where 5-6ft wolud be conside red the minimum. I certainly agree that Foxface's seem to go about their business at a much more leisurely pace compared with tangs but I'm not sure personally if that makes a difference to how much space I'd give them but interesting to hear all points of views.

 

[Jesterrace]

Part of the Foxface issue is that it depends on which one you go with. Most Foxfaces are recommended for a 6 foot long tank minimum (125 gallon), but the One Spot (smallest of the bunch) can go in a smaller tank. I sure wouldn't be putting a Foxface Lo, Magnificent or other Foxface/Rabbitfish in my tank.

 

[AbnormalReefer]

Aggression and territory mainly. As stated above, fox-face are no where near as aggressive as say, a yellow tang. From my experience they do not swim as much either. Minimum for a juvenile fox (regular or one spot, not magnificent) is 40, and 55-75 as an adult. A yellow tang I’d recommend a tank size as an adult of atleast 75 gallons assuming it is the only tang present. If not, go for 100-125.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I returned my Yellow Tang to my LFS, even though he was not very large, and it’s a 6-foot long tank. (I could just see problems ahead.) I bought One Spot Foxface and a Yellow Eyed Kole Tang instead— it was a great decision! ;Smug

 

[4FordFamily]

As has been already said, foxface aren’t nearly as active nor as aggressive and their behavior likely lends them toward being more “cramped” than tangs.

 

[Jesterrace]

Mine likes to do this goofy thing where it swims at a semi-vertical angle with it's snout pointed up it will swim slowly from side to side while doing it. The only time it moves really quickly horizontally is if it gets spooked and is trying to hide in a hurry.