Frag tank vs Barebottom reef. Am i mssing something?

[Maximitsurugi]

I have a question. After watching BRStvs vid on Barebottom tabk cycling etc and the statement that SPS frags generally dont do well in new tanks and hypothetically worse with barebottom tanks, how the heck do frag tanks pull it off then?

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I don't see the difference. Sand doesn't do a ton for biological filtration. As long as your parameters are stable your sps won't care what the bottom looks like

 

[DaneGer21]

Depends who this is gear towards.

The average hobbyist? 9 outta 10 have them tied to their main system and may have sand elsewhere.

A company/distributor?Now depending on their locations, some are tied right into the ocean. And others just rely on water changes.

I’d say as long as the water is good and stable, it’ll all work out. Sand isn’t truly “needed” I suppose.

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Good question I wondered the same. The guy from BRS said that he had some frag tanks and the bare bottom one did not do well until the one year mark then I walk into a LFS with a new thank with bare bottom and dry rock with sps and is going great? Maybe rock steady levels? @fishguy242 ?

 

[Maximitsurugi]

I don't see the difference. Sand doesn't do a ton for biological filtration. As long as your parameters are stable your sps won't care what the bottom looks like

So why the big hooplah on cycling as it regards coral? Dont we cycle for fish? BRS recommends 4 months before corals but guys setup frag tanks from scratch overnight.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I personally have never had a cycle since I am a live rock guy (but it is very important to be cycled for fish or even just coral)

Precycled media is definitely used in those vender tanks though. Ceramic blocks or live rock or something

 

[Maximitsurugi]

I personally have never had a cycle since I am a live rock guy (but it is very important to be cycled for fish or even just coral)

Precycled media is definitely used in those vender tanks though. Ceramic blocks or live rock or something

For fish i agree but even Jake Adams alluded to the lack of needing a cycle for coral in one if his vids.

 

[92Miata]

I've seen BRS claim that bare bottom tanks cycle slower.

I've never seen any evidence of this.

They handle phosphate differently - but they don't really do anything slower IME.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

I don't know who Jake Adam's is and I've never watched a brs video but I do believe that if you keep corals then you have to feed them. The food will make the water dirty and you will want established bacteria to clean it up....

 

[Maximitsurugi]

Double posted.

 

[Maximitsurugi]

I don't know who Jake Adam's is and I've never watched a brs video but I do believe that if you keep corals then you have to feed them. The food will make the water dirty and you will want established bacteria to clean it up....

@Jake Adams[/USER] is a marine biologist, reefer etc but i digress. I agree about the feeding to a point but with a toss in of bottled bacteria at the start which is a proven method of establishing the necessary biofauna, shouldnt this be a suitable environment for keeping any coral?[/

 

[fishguy242]

So why the big hooplah on cycling as it regards coral? Dont we cycle for fish? BRS recommends 4 months before corals but guys setup frag tanks from scratch overnight.

For fish i agree but even Jake Adams alluded to the lack of needing a cycle for coral in one if his vids.

@Jake Adams[/USER] is a marine biologist, reefer etc but i digress. I agree about the feeding to a point but with a toss in of bottled bacteria at the start which is a proven method of establishing the necessary biofauna, shouldnt this be a suitable environment for keeping any coral?[/

hi,first overnight bare bottom,either mature water and live rock and skimmer are your friends
would not dive rt in fresh with acro,test piece
jmo no quick fix in bottle,bare bottom sps 240 no sand needed,happy reefing

 

[xxkenny90xx]

@Jake Adams[/USER] is a marine biologist, reefer etc but i digress. I agree about the feeding to a point but with a toss in of bottled bacteria at the start which is a proven method of establishing the necessary biofauna, shouldnt this be a suitable environment for keeping any coral?[/

Eh what do marine biologists know

Hypothetically yes..... You will get some bacteria from your bottle but I wouldn't go as far as to say your getting all of the necessary stuff. Ime the idea of dumping a bottle of bacteria (or whatever they put in there) in and expecting an sps tank tomorrow is usually how people end up leaving the hobby. To many losses and wasted $

Oh and you will also need some kind of media for the bacteria to attach too

 

[Maximitsurugi]

Eh what do marine biologists know

Hypothetically yes..... You will get some bacteria from your bottle but I wouldn't go as far as to say your getting all of the necessary stuff. Ime the idea of dumping a bottle of bacteria (or whatever they put in there) in and expecting an sps tank tomorrow is usually how people end up leaving the hobby. To many losses and wasted $

Oh and you will also need some kind of media for the bacteria to attach too

Dude im with you, my philosophies are of the old school. Im playing devils advocate here BUT im trying to find out why a 4 month cycle for a BB and there are many persons who do frag tanks successfully. Sps might be a differemt ballgame but honestly no one knows what maturity really is except time.


Look at 4:46-5:11

 

[92Miata]

Eh what do marine biologists know

Hypothetically yes..... You will get some bacteria from your bottle but I wouldn't go as far as to say your getting all of the necessary stuff. Ime the idea of dumping a bottle of bacteria (or whatever they put in there) in and expecting an sps tank tomorrow is usually how people end up leaving the hobby. To many losses and wasted $

Oh and you will also need some kind of media for the bacteria to attach too

And yet, at every conference, vendors set up hundreds of sale tanks with SPS and fish and bottled bacteria and they're fine.

Everything needed for the nitrogen cycle is handled by bottled bacteria. And quick. This shouldn't be in question anymore.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

And yet, at every conference, vendors set up hundreds of sale tanks with SPS and fish and bottled bacteria and they're fine.

Everything needed for the nitrogen cycle is handled by bottled bacteria. And quick. This shouldn't be in question anymore.

Bottled bacteria working for cycling a tank isn't in question. I did not say that. But you can't actually believe that those bottles contain all of the microfauna my live rocks contain.

From what I've seen those venders use Precycled media in their frag tanks (maybe some don't, I haven't been to every frag swap). And I don't believe those tanks are set up for long term success (not that you can't have success with bottled bacteria, of course you can)

 

[PicassoClown04]

Hi! I’ve got 3 systems, all barebottom, and sps does very well! Two of them are AIO as well so even less bio filtration. I don’t have anything crazy but I do have some nicer pieces like Red Planet, Walt Disney, Forest Fire digi, Garf bonsai, Birdsnest, red dragon, and several nice no name pieces that grow very well. I don’t think sand makes a difference .

 

[stanlalee]

These frag tanks or any of these reefs thrown up overnight use established media which is more of a "move" than a start. You might not always see it but in the sump, remote filtration or in the tank is established media. As for sand vs bare bottom, that's merely a surface area discussion. I mean if I add 10 fish to 5lbs of rock and 10 fish 50lbs of rock obviously the 50lbs of rock has more surface area/bacteria to process the load at any given stage. I don't think it has anything to do with sand. Put 20lbs of sand and 5lbs of liverock it's not going to do anything faster or have more processing capacity than a bare bottom with liverock of similar surface area. They are talking about the SAME tank with the same rock with and without sand. There is an obvious surface area difference there.

 

[Maximitsurugi]

Ok, ill put a real situation and you tell me how you think it might go based on the info posted so far. I have a reef that has aiptaisia all over. Im going to break every acro i have and transfer them to a new dry rock scape, where i have maybe 3-4lbs of Matrix media cycled for over a year in the sump.

The rock has been soaked in lanthanum chloride dosed water and will have zero phosphate. My intention is to go barebottom in this setup. "See the scape in my build thread."

Can i move my acros without issue? Its gonna be a "frag" tank afterall but many persons say no, you need maturity of a year to keep acros etc.

Frankly, apart from the MB7 ill dose to the reef, i dont think the Matrix will do anymore than help me move fish. What do you think?

 

[DC Reefer]

Ok, ill put a real situation and you tell me how you think it might go based on the info posted so far. I have a reef that has aiptaisia all over. Im going to break every acro i have and transfer them to a new dry rock scape, where i have maybe 3-4lbs of Matrix media cycled for over a year in the sump.

The rock has been soaked in lanthanum chloride dosed water and will have zero phosphate. My intention is to go barebottom in this setup. "See the scape in my build thread."

Can i move my acros without issue? Its gonna be a "frag" tank afterall but many persons say no, you need maturity of a year to keep acros etc.

Frankly, apart from the MB7 ill dose to the reef, i dont think the Matrix will do anymore than help me move fish. What do you think?

Is your “cycled” matrix from the same tank as the aptasia? If so you may be transferring it to the new tank.
also I think the 4 month cycle BRS is referring too is for dry rock. I believe in their videos they say if using live rock it will speed the process up. I did their process on a rebuild and used all live rock and dosed a few different brands of bacteria. Never got any algae, coralline came on strong very quickly. I did fish in two weeks and waited 2 months for corals. This was a bare bottom tank. I also used three of the bio bricks in the sump.

I did a build a number of years ago and was doing zeovit. I started with all dry rock, turned on the lights and had an algae forest in no time. So bad just started over.