Free PAR meter? Photone App.

[Jimmeh lee]

Sadly I couldn't get anything close to what I was seeing with the Seneye. It was showing 90 where Seneye was showing 200ish. BRS did a video which provided some basic par readings and it might be good to see if anyone else has better luck

Did you use a diffuser? That 334 reading I posted was with one on, prior to adding it the reading was much, much lower. Around a third. From literally wrapping paper over the cameras.

 

[Devaji]

I'm about to give it a go... I don't have an actual PAR meter to compare it to but curious to see what results I get. I'll report back and let you all know how it goes.

let us know how it goes man. quite curious myself. not sure I can convince the other half to let me use here iphone in the tank tho...

 

[Gho5t]

Ok, so I calibrated the app and dunked the phone. Out of the water it seems stable and repeatable within 10 PAR or so. Every now and then I would get a wild reading, but would just remove the phone and put it back under the test condition and it would come back to the expected value.

Now to the tank... The ziplock bag that I used I think caused more problems then good, so much so I almost just dunked the phone in the tank. I've actually put my phone underwater before so I wasn't too worried, but I didn't go that far. The plastic bag kept triggering the HOLD feature on the app so it wouldn't update the reading. I would have to take the phone back out of the water and move the bag around for it to go live again. That was probably the biggest pain of the process.

As for readings.... I have a Radion XR30 Blue mounted 7 inches above a 30x30x24 cube in the center running at 50% intensity on the AB+ preset. At a depth of 8 inches directly under the light I had reading that ranged from 250-410. At the far corner bottom of the tank I had readings of 170-250. So I'd like to think that the low readings were the "correct" reading and that the plastic bag may have caused some abnormalities but who knows. If that's a ballpark reading, that's a pretty big ballpark. To my eye, I think the reading from the app is hot, but I can't be sure till I actually pick up a PAR meter.

This got me thinking... are there known models of light dispersion for these lighting fixtures? I would assume light transmission/falloff through air/water would be a constant... like an XR30 at 10" above the water at 100% intensity would yield X at a depth of Y. In computer graphics, and I'm sure other disciplines, we use IES files which model the physical light distribution and falloff of practical lights. I would love to see something similar for reef lights.

 

[maxwell]

FYI, I compared my Seneye PAR readings to an Apogee Quantum PAR meter about a month ago. The readings were almost exactly the same. So, for those that don't trust the Seneye readings, you should.

I have just watched a Sam Parker on youtube doing a comparison with Seneye ,and 2 apogee units and the seneye was reading double what the apogees so it proves to me the seneye is not good .Im going to give this a go just made a holder stick and ordered a iphone 7 arrives tomoz .

 

[maxwell]

Ok, so I calibrated the app and dunked the phone. Out of the water it seems stable and repeatable within 10 PAR or so. Every now and then I would get a wild reading, but would just remove the phone and put it back under the test condition and it would come back to the expected value.

Now to the tank... The ziplock bag that I used I think caused more problems then good, so much so I almost just dunked the phone in the tank. I've actually put my phone underwater before so I wasn't too worried, but I didn't go that far. The plastic bag kept triggering the HOLD feature on the app so it wouldn't update the reading. I would have to take the phone back out of the water and move the bag around for it to go live again. That was probably the biggest pain of the process.

As for readings.... I have a Radion XR30 Blue mounted 7 inches above a 30x30x24 cube in the center running at 50% intensity on the AB+ preset. At a depth of 8 inches directly under the light I had reading that ranged from 250-410. At the far corner bottom of the tank I had readings of 170-250. So I'd like to think that the low readings were the "correct" reading and that the plastic bag may have caused some abnormalities but who knows. If that's a ballpark reading, that's a pretty big ballpark. To my eye, I think the reading from the app is hot, but I can't be sure till I actually pick up a PAR meter.

This got me thinking... are there known models of light dispersion for these lighting fixtures? I would assume light transmission/falloff through air/water would be a constant... like an XR30 at 10" above the water at 100% intensity would yield X at a depth of Y. In computer graphics, and I'm sure other disciplines, we use IES files which model the physical light distribution and falloff of practical lights. I would love to see something similar for reef lights.

Hi, which app did you use for full spectrum was it LM3000

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Did you use a diffuser? That 334 reading I posted was with one on, prior to adding it the reading was much, much lower. Around a third. From literally wrapping paper over the cameras.

Yeah I followed the guide and reread the thing a few times to make sure I wasnt losing my mind. Used standard computer paper. I can try again this weekend when I have more time on my hand, maybe with a different bag or something.

 

[Jonreefer]

Yes I used a ziplock bag. I will gladly risk 18 dollars in the bag but not my phone with saltwater. red are from the Apogee and the green are this particular 18 dollar LUX meter I posted above . Take care. Photo credit and source is J. Duboy

Rent or Borrow a PAR meter and im sure you can get the same results with any LUX meter

this was the LUX meter I used when I did this
Lux Meter

 

[Jase4224]

I have just watched a Sam Parker on youtube doing a comparison with Seneye ,and 2 apogee units and the seneye was reading double what the eapogees so it proves to me the seneye is not good .Im going to give this a go just made a holder stick and ordered a iphone 7 arrives tomoz .

I wander if his seneye was dodgy, Sam does great videos but BRS did the same comparison and got very close numbers.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I wander if his seneye was dodgy, Sam does great videos but BRS did the same comparison and got very close numbers.

I will say that once I 3D printed a wand/holder that my readings stabilized dramatically. It is very sensitive to tilt and shadowing so holding it was a non-option. I can try zip tying the phone to the holder but the fact I was 120 par off doesn't account for this.

 

[T-J]

I have just watched a Sam Parker on youtube doing a comparison with Seneye ,and 2 apogee units and the seneye was reading double what the apogees so it proves to me the seneye is not good .Im going to give this a go just made a holder stick and ordered a iphone 7 arrives tomoz .

I guess BRS, who also did a comparison, and myself are just liars then...

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

If I remember I can do some comparisons to my Seneye when I get home. If anyone is interested just PM me if I don't post them tonight.

I'd personally love to see a few side by side readings for comparison. Thanks.

 

[BoxKing]

With respect for BRS, bc I think they do a bang up job with reviewing products and all.. but do you actually think they took out a Seneye right out of the box without making sure that unit would perform as advertised prior to making the video?! If in some rare case, all of the Seneye units are calibrated within a tolerable range, then the finger pointing would land to user error; if this is the case, the errors made with a cell phone while held under water will only result in an outcome of this app failing users more than the Seneye.

The idea of the app sounded great for a hot minute, but Ill be trusting a tried and true PAR meter over a homemade diffuser and zip lock bag.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

With respect for BRS, bc I think they do a bang up job with reviewing products and all.. but do you actually think they took out a Seneye right out of the box without making sure that unit would perform as advertised prior to making the video?! If in some rare case, all of the Seneye units are calibrated within a tolerable range, then the finger pointing would land to user error; if this is the case, the errors made with a cell phone while held under water will only result in an outcome of this app failing users more than the Seneye.

The idea of the app sounded great for a hot minute, but Ill be trusting a tried and true PAR meter over a homemade diffuser and zip lock bag.

Having used the Seneye for a little less than a month now I can atleast say that they are not very accurately calibrated. Ammonia and pH readings are not reacting to controlled dosing. Makes sense that a true Par meter wouldn't have as much error... but BRS also posted par readings to bench mark against. Seneye was reading within 5% of their established PAR readings for 2 AI Primes running AB+ over a 40 breeder. A trusted Par meter is not needed as long as a reference exists. A coral simply doesn't care about a variation of 10 Par.

I am confident we can get this app working for 90% of users, just a matter of the details and some extra time in my day.

 

[maxwell]

Yeah I followed the guide and reread the thing a few times to make sure I wasnt losing my mind. Used standard computer paper. I can try again this weekend when I have more time on my hand, maybe with a different bag or something.

Neon , can you tell me how you calibrated it for underwater use. step 1 / insert pseudo ref number ( what number did you use or was it without bag under afixed light source . 2/ put it in the bag and repeat the reading . step3 / line 2 measurement x 1.23( or similar) entered in step 3. thanks

 

[Gho5t]

Hi, which app did you use for full spectrum was it LM3000

I used the Photone app with the LED Full Spectrum light setting.

 

[Gho5t]

Looking back at the process of using the phone in the water and reading other comments, I agree that using a selfie stick would probably be the best method rather than hand holding. Additionally, the phones can be placed in water, so I would opt to tape some type of plastic diffusion material, smoked white plastic or other similar filter, directly to the phone and forego the plastic bag. If the bag didn't keep causing the app to go into HOLD mode and freeze the reading the bag would probably be fine. I looked for an option to turn off the HOLD feature but I don't believe it exists.

I've went ahead and rented a MQ-510 PAR meter from BRS. I was planning on doing it anyways so I'll measure out my tank and then go back for a 2nd try with a potentially improved method with the app this weekend.

 

[BoxKing]

Looking back at the process of using the phone in the water and reading other comments, I agree that using a selfie stick would probably be the best method rather than hand holding. Additionally, the phones can be placed in water, so I would opt to tape some type of plastic diffusion material, smoked white plastic or other similar filter, directly to the phone and forego the plastic bag. If the bag didn't keep causing the app to go into HOLD mode and freeze the reading the bag would probably be fine. I looked for an option to turn off the HOLD feature but I don't believe it exists.

I've went ahead and rented a MQ-510 PAR meter from BRS. I was planning on doing it anyways so I'll measure out my tank and then go back for a 2nd try with a potentially improved method with the app this weekend.

How did you go about renting this unit when they discontinued the rental option?

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Neon , can you tell me how you calibrated it for underwater use. step 1 / insert pseudo ref number ( what number did you use or was it without bag under afixed light source . 2/ put it in the bag and repeat the reading . step3 / line 2 measurement x 1.23( or similar) entered in step 3. thanks

For the second iteration of calibrations the pseudo ref number is only inputed to get to the second screen. I think I used 160 and then it takes the detected reading. Multiply it by 1.32 then swipe back to the first screen and change the number from 160 to the new calculated number.

 

[Gho5t]

How did you go about renting this unit when they discontinued the rental option?

The rentals are not discontinued, they just changed the way they do them. I actually called BRS and instead of it being just a rental fee upfront, you have to pay the full price, think of it as a deposit, and then you can use it and you have 60 days to return it. When you're done with the unit, you call them and they'll give you an RMA number to send it back and take a $69.99 "Restocking fee" (rental fee).

On the site it's listed as the "Wet Tested" meter here:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/wet-tested-mq-510-full-spectrum-underwater-led-par-meter-apogee.html

 

[greetl01]

I bought this about 2 weeks ago and haven’t used it bc I couldn’t figure out how to get to the sand bed. Hadn’t thought of a plastic bag...I’ll post results if I try it.

*edit*
so I tried the bag. Put the phone in the bag and lowered it into the water up to the seal to vacuum seal it. Then zipped it, and taped the plastic bag with painters tape. Not a drop got in. I’m reading 70 par at the top of my rocks. Yikes....time to lower my lights