Freshly harvested live rock, now what?

[Chrisv.]

The whole thing reads like a professor giving a lecture, during which he posits the condition and treatment of the live rock with the purpose of eliciting argument.

It honestly got very tl;dr for me — a lot of hot air. I also suspect that with English as a second language, the questioning may be phrased a completely different way in his head.

I almost posted about it being a big mansplain post but then I felt uncomfortable using the phrase since I'm a dude and I didn't want to annoy people.

 

[kittenbritches]

I almost posted about it being a big mansplain post but then I felt uncomfortable using the phrase since I'm a dude and I didn't want to annoy people.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. The mansplaining answers to his own questions is next level uncomfortable.

 

[Chrisv.]

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. The mansplaining answers to his own questions is next level uncomfortable.

The best part is that it just keeps going. It's even being defended by other users. Cringe!

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Seriously, what is it your looking for?

Is it substance for a book or article?

It seems like your not really asking anything when you pitch a reasoning and example of what you are or will be doing. Your title "Freshly harvested live rock, now what?" is written as a question, but from what I have read, there is no question really posed just processes that you use.

The question asked is how readers will treat a piece of "fresh live rock"if it were available at the doorstep. How one may preserve as much as possible of the original diversity? How you would do it.

The myth of "live rock" is based on the value of such rock for importing original diversity and it's special abilities as a bio-filter.

 

[AquaBiomics]

New users to R2R may not realize that this thread is from a user who has for years carried on a crusade to convince everyone that live rock isnt useful. This thread is just the latest in a series.

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals. Circulation, temperature, gas exchange, and a little bit of food.

 

[Chrisv.]

New users to R2R may not realize that this thread is from a user who has for years carried on a crusade to convince everyone that live rock isnt useful. This thread is just the latest in a series.

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals. Circulation, temperature, gas exchange, and a little bit of food.

Ah. I see. Sorry for feeding the troll. It all makes sense now. Not sure why stuff like this is tolerated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The question asked is how readers will treat a piece of "fresh live rock"if it were available at the doorstep. How one may preserve as much as possible of the original diversity? How you would do it.

I'd add it directly to an established reef tank. In fact, I have done so.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

A piece of 1 kg fresh uncured ( not cleaned) live rock, what will be the filtration capacity needed to be able to support all life present?
One may assume about 0.5 kg bio-load must be supported, maybe more. As it is the intention to import original diversity this means the building materials constantly produced due to remineralization should be re-used for growth by original organisms and clades, otherwise they will be re-used by other NON original competitors. The original bio-load must be able to grow and this growth must be supported. This means I have to provide space and a sterile environment to reduce contamination to its minimum.
But how I can install the carrying capacity needed without introducing NON -original organisms?

I may solve this using a biofilter for installing the filtration capacity needed and treat the effluent of the filter , the return, with UV germicidal light. For me that is no problem because I have a powerful UV amalgaam germicidal unit which I can use. To make clear water germ-free, 180,000 µW-s/cm² is needed, then a new unit will have to be able to deliver 225,000 µW-s/cm² at the intended flow. ref: MB UV lampen CMF De Haes 2018 . Also, installing filtration capacity is not very difficult for me. I always have conditioned filter rolls at my disposal that I can use wherever and when I want. I have a special remineralization tank ( refuge) set up for this purpose.

I personally have not the intention to use it in an established system as most of the original live will be lost. Without preparing the system for what is coming, will the system be able to support the supplemental bio-load? The myth supports the ideology that the piece of stone will contribute to the filtration capacity but in this case it is better to assume that the piece of stone will put a heavy burden on the system.

Turning the myth into reality, how you would do it?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

New users to R2R may not realize that this thread is from a user who has for years carried on a crusade to convince everyone that live rock isnt useful. This thread is just the latest in a series.

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals. Circulation, temperature, gas exchange, and a little bit of food.

It is true I am not a believer of the dogma created around so called " life rock" and the way it is commercialized the past decennia. ref: MB Levend steen Anthias 2019 What is left from the myth is the ability to provide original diversity, so, why not trying doing it

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals But in practice there seems to be a lot of problems which are the same for importing marine live, no matter what kind of live. The way the package is treated the moment it transfered is crucial for the future of that live in captivity. It also may contain other corals, but then it will be sold as " coral" and not " live rock".

Ah. I see. Sorry for feeding the troll. It all makes sense now. Not sure why stuff like this is tolerated.

I am certainly not against the use of real live rock and I never tried to convince people it is NOT useful for the good reason it is if it is made available. I often have asked the question why a piece of rock must be transported around the world if there is very little added value . I have searched for years for scientific evidence which may be called a crusade in favor of "real live rock" , a search for the real value. The result is that I have found not much that supports the myth created around so called " life rock" and the way it is commercialized.
There are other ways to import original diversity, without needing the rock.
Every piece of live entered will enter it's own diversity, it's own unique holobiont.
Does one need "life rock" to introduce the diversity needed. NO, of coarse not. Is it possible to create a balanced marine environment based on one piece of "real live rock", yes, why not? But most probably a lot of changes will take place when the first fish is added and has spread its intestinal contents. One may ask the question: why bothering about importing original diversity?

If one would have the opportunity to have a piece of real fresh" live rock" it would certainly be of great value. This treat is about how you would preserve that value if it was made available.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

New users to R2R may not realize that this thread is from a user who has for years carried on a crusade to convince everyone that live rock isnt useful. This thread is just the latest in a series.

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals. Circulation, temperature, gas exchange, and a little bit of food.

It is true I am not a believer of the dogma created around so called " life rock" and the way it is commercialized the past decennia. ref: MB Levend steen Anthias 2019 What is left from the myth is the ability to provide original diversity, so, why not trying doing it

Fresh live rock should be treated approximately the same as hardy soft corals But in practice there seems to be a lot of problems which are the same for importing marine live, no matter what kind of live. The way the package is treated the moment it is transferred after transport is crucial for the future of that live in captivity. It also may contain other corals, but then it will be sold as " coral" and not " live rock" and being treated differently.

Ah. I see. Sorry for feeding the troll. It all makes sense now. Not sure why stuff like this is tolerated.

I am certainly not against the use of real live rock and I never tried to convince people it is NOT useful for the good reason it is if it is made available. I often have asked the question why a piece of rock must be transported around the world if there is very little added value . I have searched for years for scientific evidence which may be called a crusade in favor of "real live rock" , a search for the real value. The result is that I have found not much that supports the myth created around so called " life rock" and the way it is commercialized.
There are other ways to import original diversity, without needing the rock.
Every piece of live entered will enter it's own diversity, it's own unique holobiont.
Does one need "life rock" to introduce the diversity needed. NO, of coarse not. Is it possible to create a balanced marine environment based on one piece of "real live rock", yes, why not? But most probably a lot of changes will take place when the first fish is added and has spread its intestinal contents. One may ask the question: why bothering about importing original diversity. It comes for free?

Not sure why stuff like this is tolerated. Thinking about all those who make a living by maintaining the myth the stuff as you call it may be of some importance and certainly for beginners.

Proper research about the survival rate of original diversity may or may not support what is left over of the myth. We do have a lot of information about corals which also may be considered to be a piece of "live rock". We do have a lot of information about what makes part of the holobiont of coral, sponges, etc..., about what is keeping everything in balance. About biofilms growing on different surfaces and substrates.

There are a lot of treats discussing the cons and pro's of so called " life rock".

If one would have the opportunity to have a piece of "real fresh live rock" it would certainly be of great value. This treat is about how you would preserve that value if it was made available.