Frog fish ownership

[chair]

A couple of things I'm hoping the r2r community can help me answer...

1. A reputable source for buying frogfish online

2. The most ideal water parameters or unique things I should be doing for my frogfish tank (Temp lighting MG etc)

3. Feeding amount, diet variation and supplementing

4. Can I pair my frogfish, and if so which species of frogfish should I go for...

5.Any helpful tips from previous or current owners would be greatly appreciated

I am currently new to this hobby with a newly cycled tank (32.5 fluval curved tank with 2 Ai 16 reef lights with 2 clowns at the moment and frag of frogspawn)

 

[chair]

My purple angler has passed away. D: I'm worried that the orange one will follow suite. @lion king would you ever consider dosing metroplex or sulfaplex for frogfish? ive noticed more white spots on the orange angler that normaly dont follow his regular patterns. Also they seem more small white and uniform.

 

[lion king]

I have used general cure which does have metroplex, what is your diagnosis and why your choices in medication.

I have found it's the rapid change in chemistry that may trigger a decline when using medications like metroplex. I like to split dose into 3rds and observe carefully. Depending on how they react you can administer next dose in 4 hrs and next in additional 4 hrs. The time range will not interfere with effectiveness but may allow them to adjust more safely. Make sure there is proper aeration and water quality is maintained. If he is eating feed before treatment as they may go off of feeding for a while once treatment starts. You could try the other med with the same protocol, just be prepared for a water change or removal if a severe reaction.

 

[ace007]

Thought I would post a video of my pair of warty Frogfish breeding. They spawn and fertilise every 6 days and eggs have a 4 day hatch cycle. A marine biologist is trying to grow them on. No success so far.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Thought I would post a video of my pair of warty Frogfish breeding. They spawn and fertilise every 6 days and eggs have a 4 day hatch cycle. A marine biologist is trying to grow them on. No success so far.

Great video and info! How long have they been trying to rear the larvae?

 

[ace007]

Great video and info! How long have they been trying to rear the larvae?

They have been breeding since before Christmas. The first batch didn’t hatch - I think he too too soon - within 30 mins of production. . The second batch did but he couldn’t collect. The next batch I kept in an acclimation box but the lack of “sunlight” meant they didn’t develop. The next batch hatched but again he couldn’t take them. But the next batch will go over on Wednesday. So fingers crossed

 

[lion king]

Thought I would post a video of my pair of warty Frogfish breeding. They spawn and fertilise every 6 days and eggs have a 4 day hatch cycle. A marine biologist is trying to grow them on. No success so far.

Here's my take on breeding these fish in captivity. I get a few questions in regards to breeding these, along with lions and scorps. I have kept many that produced eggs, I recently lost a pygmy red rooster waspfish that produced eggs for years, with a male in the tank: and then all of sudden became egg bound and died. My rhinopias produced eggs for years. I am not interested in breeding at all. I did hatch some cuttlefish once and ended with 3 I raised, it was not for me.

Here's the thing! There is no history of consistent long term success of keeping anglers in captivity. Really, barely even temporary success, worthy of even keeping this species in captivity at all. So first, before even considering breeding in captivity, let's have some success in keeping them in captivity. So how are going to care for them long term? How are you caring for them now? Have you kept them successfully for many years before? So first, let's have success in keeping them at all!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

They have been breeding since before Christmas. The first batch didn’t hatch - I think he too too soon - within 30 mins of production. . The second batch did but he couldn’t collect. The next batch I kept in an acclimation box but the lack of “sunlight” meant they didn’t develop. The next batch hatched but again he couldn’t take them. But the next batch will go over on Wednesday. So fingers crossed

How long have you had them? What do you feed them and how often? Is there any sort of cue for the spawning (like temp changes), or is it just a cyclical thing? What lights are you running over the tank? Any ideas what PAR or spectrum? What are your tank dimensions and water parameters?

 

[ace007]

I have had them for around 4 months. I feed them every other day. The larger female with 1 frozen lance fish gut loaded manually with ocean nutrition pellets 1 &2. I also feed frozen shrimp. The male has gone off frozen lance fish and eats ghost shrimp gut loaded both live and defrosted. Does not seem to be any cue for spawning. I am running a radion XR30 G5 over the section of sump where I keep these fish in their own species tank. I run a modified AB+ program with higher whites. My DT is 8x3x2.5 and my sump - more of a frump - is the same length and width but reduced height. I have been reefkeeping for 16 years.

 

[ace007]

Current parameters as below. Phosphate a little high - normally 0.06.

 

[lion king]

I have had them for around 4 months. I feed them every other day. The larger female with 1 frozen lance fish gut loaded manually with ocean nutrition pellets 1 &2. I also feed frozen shrimp. The male has gone off frozen lance fish and eats ghost shrimp gut loaded both live and defrosted. Does not seem to be any cue for spawning. I am running a radion XR30 G5 over the section of sump where I keep these fish in their own species tank. I run a modified AB+ program with higher whites. My DT is 8x3x2.5 and my sump - more of a frump - is the same length and width but reduced height. I have been reefkeeping for 16 years.

Lance fish is used a common name, do you know the species. The common name lance fish is also referred to smelt, which has a high amount of thiaminese. Depending on which ocean nutrition pellet you are using, they will contain krill, another high thiaminese food; as well as wheat and soy. If you don't know about thiaminese, look into it; and I shouldn't need to explain why aquatic life shouldn't eat wheat and soy. One reason the anglers goes off the food he is being offered, is because of a nutritional deficiency. Ghost shrimp alone will also eventually prove to be deficient. While whole shrimp with shells and guts can be a small inclusion to their captive diet, unless fresh the amount of thiaminese will over ride the vitamin B1. At breeding age feeding every other day is too frequent, this is also one the most common reasons for their early demise. I would do more research into their long term care in captivity rather than to attempt breeding. Once they use up their natural nutritional stores, from storing related to their gorge/fast feeding cycle; they will decline.

 

[ace007]

Lance fish is used a common name, do you know the species. The common name lance fish is also referred to smelt, which has a high amount of thiaminese. Depending on which ocean nutrition pellet you are using, they will contain krill, another high thiaminese food; as well as wheat and soy. If you don't know about thiaminese, look into it; and I shouldn't need to explain why aquatic life shouldn't eat wheat and soy. One reason the anglers goes off the food he is being offered, is because of a nutritional deficiency. Ghost shrimp alone will also eventually prove to be deficient. While whole shrimp with shells and guts can be a small inclusion to their captive diet, unless fresh the amount of thiaminese will over ride the vitamin B1. At breeding age feeding every other day is too frequent, this is also one the most common reasons for their early demise. I would do more research into their long term care in captivity rather than to attempt breeding. Once they use up their natural nutritional stores, from storing related to their gorge/fast feeding cycle; they will decline.

I am not attempting breeding. They just are. A local marine biologist is trying to hatch the eggs. He has bred rare species before and is trying with these. Thanks for the information on feeding. Please advise where your data on feeding around breeding time comes from and I will look into it.

 

[lion king]

I am not attempting breeding. They just are. A local marine biologist is trying to hatch the eggs. He has bred rare species before and is trying with these. Thanks for the information on feeding. Please advise where your data on feeding around breeding time comes from and I will look into it.

Laying eggs is not breeding, there's alot more to it to that. As I stated earlier, I've had a number of them lay eggs. Laying eggs is just a natural process, most times this ends eventually. They are never fertilized, or I should probably say very rarely, although I've never seen it. And I've only read it about once, with a marble mouthed angler. Even this biologist states the lacking diet and none of the spawn survived.

Read this thread, you don't have to believe what I say. I promise you if you continue that diet those fish will not survive long. It's pretty basic; anglers are carnivorous ambush predators. A feeding schedule too frequent with a diet high in thiaminese, low in proper fats, and high in carbs will not sustain these fish long. Honestly 4 months is just about right for the high end of survival for this type of diet and this feeding schedule. These are not fish with a long track record of successfully keeping. You can find your info in the search bar. You can believe other sources that don't show you pics or pics of a 2" warty they say they have had for 5 years, feeding them krill and silversides; not going to happen. Do me a favor, post back in a year with your reports of how you cared for them.

 

[ace007]

Read this thread, you don't have to believe what I say. I promise you if you continue that diet those fish will not survive long. It's pretty basic; anglers are carnivorous ambush predators. A feeding schedule too frequent with a diet high in thiaminese, low in proper fats, and high in carbs will not sustain these fish long. Honestly 4 months is just about right for the high end of survival for this type of diet and this feeding schedule. These are not fish with a long track record of successfully keeping. You can find your info in the search bar. you can believe other sources that don't show you pics or pics of a 2" warty they say they have had for 5 years, feeding them krill and silversides; not going to happen. Do me a favor, post back in a year with your reports of how you cared for them.

Not sure why you are being so aggressive in your posts. I posted to show a rarely seen in captivity breeding in Frogfish. I am always willing to learn more on husbandry and have extensively tried to find information which is limited even in academic papers. I feed a mixed variety of foods rather than just one in order to try to give a varied diet with added vitamins etc. As you are an expert on Frogfish I would be most interested to know what you feed yours, how often, how often around breeding cycles and why, what size and species of Frogfish you are caring for and the life expectancy you have achieved for your frog fish.

If your point is that in your opinion Frogfish cannot be successfully be kept in captivity and are better left in the ocean that is fine too.

I have these fish, will care for them to my best ability and am interested in improving my husbandry of them.

 

[lion king]

Not sure why you are being so aggressive in your posts. I posted to show a rarely seen in captivity breeding in Frogfish. I am always willing to learn more on husbandry and have extensively tried to find information which is limited even in academic papers. I feed a mixed variety of foods rather than just one in order to try to give a varied diet with added vitamins etc. As you are an expert on Frogfish I would be most interested to know what you feed yours, how often, how often around breeding cycles and why, what size and species of Frogfish you are caring for and the life expectancy you have achieved for your frog fish.

If your point is that in your opinion Frogfish cannot be successfully be kept in captivity and are better left in the ocean that is fine too.

I have these fish, will care for them to my best ability and am interested in improving my husbandry of them.

My perceived aggressive response is from the frustration of previous hobbyist focused on breeding yet not even understanding the care of the species involved, as the subject of this thread. And YES, I believe frogfish should be left in the ocean. While the hobby as a whole has an extremely and shameful high mortality rate, frogfish die as a matter of fact. Very rarely even reaching a hobbyist tank, and when they do, most are dead literally within days. I stick around here because I figure; these fish are already in a glass cage, so maybe I can help a little to make their life better, and maybe even survivable. The fantasy of breeding these fish in captivity from a hobbyist, is just that, a fantasy. Maybe you'll have long term success form these fish, maybe you'll do more research and find more valuable information than I have. I will never keep a frogfish again and I wish you the best. Here is thread I wrote

So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ace007]

An update on my breeding pair. Both still healthy, breeding every week. Marine biologist reared the young but couldn’t source suitable food for the fry in the UK.

 

[ace007]

 

[ace007]

This was day 5 fry. Needed specific food source and only successful breeder was university in Hawaii which pumps in natural seawater with food in suspension. It’s a shame we didn’t succeed as the fish produces 10k eggs per batch so if could be done would mean no need to collect from sea.

 

[Chrisv.]

This was day 5 fry. Needed specific food source and only successful breeder was university in Hawaii which pumps in natural seawater with food in suspension

Incredibly cool. Do they know what the natural food source that they need is? Might be worth having a conversation with some of the folks on the industry side who specialize in difficult to handle live feeds. I know you're already working with a marine biologist, but there are folks who have done this successfully with many many species on the industry side who might be able to give additional advice. @Biota_Marine

 

[ace007]

In the UK no one is breeding fish really as no money it. My guy is one of the few who do it commercially. He asked the guy who was successful in the US but he wouldn’t divulge the secret sauce of food. The photo is really cool as you can see the Frogfish back fins/ feet.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

In the UK no one is breeding fish really as no money it. My guy is one of the few who do it commercially. He asked the guy who was successful in the US but he wouldn’t divulge the secret sauce of food. The photo is really cool as you can see the Frogfish back fins/ feet.

I would be pretty surprised if it needs different feeders than the painted frogfish reared by Frank Baensch - ciliates, Parvocalanus crassirostris, rotifers, and brine shrimp (Artemia); unfortunately, Parvocalanus pods are very tough to come by in the UK (at least for hobbyists):

"Culture
A. pictus juveniles were raised from an egg raft found floating 5 miles off Oahu in January 2022. The egg raft was hatched under flow in a 5-gallon bucket. The larvae were raised through flexion in a 70L round tank in dense microalgae on ciliates, parvocalanus nauplii, size-sorted wild copepods and enriched rotifers. Postflexion larvae were raised in a 50L round tank under dim light on newly-hatched and enriched artemia. Starting on day 7, the tank was periodically flushed with UV-filtered water from the recirculating system to remove food and maintain water quality."*

*Source (this has already been linked earlier in the thread):

Painted Frogfish Culture

Frogfishes (family: Antennariidae) are small, slow moving ambush predators with a short, stocky, well-camouflaged body. Frogfish can change their color in a few weeks to match their surroundings.

www.frankbaensch.com