Frogspawn/plate coral long tentacle/Torch coral impossible to keep

[Oliver94]

Hello!! Since I begun adding corals to my tank,I succeeded into acclimating all corals that I got : leather/ brain coral /zoas / sun coral/ xenia / Anthelia sp. They are all doing great.. expect for this family of corals: Frogspawn/plate coral long tentacle/Torch coral,once I add them they do fine but in a month they begin losing their tentacles fast and just die in a week or 2.. what could cause such thing? Is my tank labelled not to keep these corals? My tank is 120g,lighted by maxpect razor 160w :no3 : 10 | no2 : 0 | po4: 0 |temperature : 26degrees C | Does anymore have this problem? Thank you guys!

 

[Oliver94]

double post

 

[Tab28]

The group of corals you mentioned as success are hardy corals. You did mention brain coral. Which coral, brain coral is a common name given to at least a half dozen corals from different families.

What are you water perimeters? Alk, ph, calc, mag, nitrates and phoshates. How are you acclimating them?

 

[Oliver94]

Hello Brain Coral, Favites .sorry for not precising,I also have a kenya tree coral,that is doing very well and a elephant ear mushroom,sorry forgot to mention those.. my ph is 8.1 Phosphate: 0 alk : 1.026 .cal and mag ( I don't have a test for these two..) If they are necessary I will buy these test this week-end! Thank you!! (there is something wrong with the forum.. I cannot skip lines.. when I post the reply,all new lines disappear.)

 

[Tab28]

The hardy corals seem to be doing well. It may your acclimation process or water. You have alk as 1.026 do you mean that as salinity? Alk and nitrates are two important ones you did not mention. Cal and mag are important, they need to be in sync with your alk in order to work correctly. But those two may not be the issue. They are more a long term thing for coral health. Your issue is short term. They are in shock by water more than likely. How are you acclimating? Alk and nitrates?

 

[Oliver94]

Hello Tab28,thank you for your help For my acclimation : I acclimate drop by drop for an hour and then I dip in REVIVE and to the tank,first 3 days I attenuate my leds,first day leds are set to 25% max second day 50% and third day 75%,I place everything at the bottom and after a couple of weeks if needed to move them upward I dh sorry,so these 3 were never tested ALK Ca Mag. for my nitrate they are 10

 

[thormx]

Frogspawn are usually pretty hardy, strange everything else is doing well. My frogspawn not only survived, but showed no signs of stress during a very low alk period in my tank. I lost a few other lps frags, zoa frag, two nems and a clam. Frogspawn never flinched. I would say defiantly get a alk,cal, and mag test kit, but not api! I use salifert, it's been very reliable and easy to read

 

[Tab28]

You seem to acclimating. I drip longer but that may not be your issue. Of the 3 you do not have alk is very important. But all three must be in sync. The numbers you gave seem to be fine. If your phos and nitrates are in check your skimmer and water changes are likely not the issue either.

I can not answer LED lighting numbers. But light acclimating is generally done in weeks not days. To help with lighting what wattage/type of system are you using. This will help LED user answer more easily

 

[Oliver94]

Yeah that is strange.. because these corals are not hard corals to keep.For my water change,I barely do water changes a water change per 1.5-2months. Because my system is very clean,I only have few fish for the moment,and they told me that soft coral and LPS like some nitrate that's why I don't change water too much..For led it is a maxspect razor 160w,You think I am acclimating fast? but why aren't the other coral affected? I am only loosing corals of this family,everything that has tentacles..I will try to get the test as soon as possible the ALK in first place..

 

[Tab28]

LPS do prefer nitrates around 10 so you are fine there. All other numbers are for the most part as the same SPS or LPS. Most corals you listed except favia and sun coral are all soft corals. They are generally very hardy and adapt much faster. Plate coral is not in the same family as frogspawn and torch coral. Plate coral is low light low flow. Frogspawn and all euphyllia are med light and flow. But if light is too high they generally bleach and if not feed after bleaching will die.

I can not say is your acclimating is too little. Drip is a broad word. One drip per second. One drip every minute. How are you ridding the in bag water.

I do not know you drip count. Your drip should be slow enough to allow the coral to acclimate to you temp, ph and alk. The water in the bag before you start is slowly mixed with your tank water to the point that the bag water is now your tank water.

Plates will die very fast is light is too bright. Euphyllia tolerate more light but still need to be acclimated to it. Soft corals are very hardy yo the point they are tuff to kill. Sun corals generally are not out in day light. The favia family is very big and some are more hardy than others. Did corals that died ever look good with tentacles out and flowing? If so when did they start looking poorly.

 

[Oliver94]

For the acclimation it is approx 2drops/sec.What I do,is I minimize the level of the water in the bag to the max,then I begin dripping I leave it for an hour,approx the volume will double,then the coral is transfered to another container with tank water and REVIVE and then to the main tank .The frogspawn lived the most! more than one month,like 2-3months she was like more in a low light region,it extended and ate easily.. but one day I don't know what happened,it stopped opening fully its tentacles for a week and then It begun losing tentacles... until she lost everything and died.. For the plate coral,it didn't even expand like in the LFS It just held 2 weeks and begun also to lose tentacles until it died... For the torch also like the plate coral,it held for a month or so,but day after day she was expending less and less.. until last week when I found that she lost one head.. and I saw tentacles on the gravel.. There is no factor or anything I did before they start loosing tentacles,they just like this out of nowhere begin to lose body parts..There is something harsh I am doing or in my tank maybe...

 

[Tab28]

Your are saying plate coral. Could you mean another coral? Plate corals when dying shed off their flesh. If a long tentacle plate was it always puffed out with tentacles flowing?

It is hard to say what it could be. You have success with soft corals but skeleton corals are another matter. Your waters only issue was alk. Which is very important. But now calcium may be in the mix due to time of corals life. Due you do any type of dosing? If you find alk, calc and mag are in check and you are feeding them enough, you said you have no fish so you should be feeding a few times a week with pumps off so nourishment stays is water column. Then it may be your lights.

What type of current would you say you have. Are things like your kenya tree really swaying? You said you have xenia is it pulsing xenia if so still really pulsing or slower or not at all?

 

[Oliver94]

I have attached a picture of the plate coral long tentacle I had,when I got it I placed it in a low flow area,but it never opened as it was in the LFS,and later I noticed a slice of it without tentacles,searching on the gravel I found them.. And it continued to lose all its flesh until nothing is left and it died.. For the dosing I dose nothing into my tank.I never fed my plate coral long tentacle,and the torch coral,that lost a head few days ago didn't accept to eat no matter how much I tried.The frogspawn used to eat,but unfortunately I don't know what happened to her she just stopped expending.. and after it, she lost tentacles and died finally..(it was a one head frogspawn) for feeding my tank I do feed the fish extra food,in order to pollute a bit the tank to feed the corals.. For my flow I have my return powerhead with a 5000L/H and a wavemaker of 4000 L/H. As for the xenia they pulse but not so much,I mean you need to focus on them to notice that they are pulsing Thank you Tab28!! I really appreciate your help!! have a nice week-end!

 

[Tab28]

Pulsing xenia stopping pulsing is generally a sign that water is not right. You do not dose nor do water bi-weekly water changes. What testing kits are you using?

Water changes are more than just to help reduce nitrate and phoshates. It is to help replenish needed things like mag, calcium and help raise alk as well as trace minerals. Since you are not dosing at all the water changes are more important.

I am not sure on a liter/gallon conversion but a wavemaker with 1000 gph and a return with 1250 gph is not a lot of water movement for a 120 gallon tank.

My first thought is your water perimeters may not be accurate.

 

[Oliver94]

I use SERA tests. Oh I didn't think that way for the water changes.. I should do them more frequently.. Also I just thought,My coraline algae also is disappearing from my LR..(if this can relate to a deficiency in something?) So I may need a more powerful flow?but soft corals are not that fan of flow.. that is why I never though of adding more flow. I should get my water tested as soon as possible,if I won't buy the whole kit,I will take a sample to my LFS to test it for me. Thank you so much Tab28 for helping me! cheers! And have a nice week-end!

 

[Tab28]

If your coraline algae is disappearing it generally alk, cal or lighting. Alk is generally the issue xenia stop pulsing.

As for water movement soft corals generally do prefer lower than lps. But your power heads can be arranged to accommodate. I can not keep ricordias or xenia since my flow is geared to LPS and some SPS. But you can create areas with more and less flow with positioning of power heads and aqua-scaping. But right now it is your water that needs attention.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You should at the very least be measuring alkalinity. Don't bother measuring nitrite.

Alkalinity is critical for any hard coral and may (or may not) be the problem. Calcium too, but it is unlikely to be depleted if you have never added any alkalinity.

 

[Oliver94]

If your coraline algae is disappearing it generally alk, cal or lighting. Alk is generally the issue xenia stop pulsing. As for water movement soft corals generally do prefer lower than lps. But your power heads can be arranged to accommodate. I can not keep ricordias or xenia since my flow is geared to LPS and some SPS. But you can create areas with more and less flow with positioning of power heads and aqua-scaping. But right now it is your water that needs attention.

Deal! I need to check seriously my parameters,I didn't know that additives and Ca and Alk were important for a no-SPS reef tank..

You should at the very least be measuring alkalinity. Don't bother measuring nitrite. Alkalinity is critical for any hard coral and may (or may not) be the problem. Calcium too, but it is unlikely to be depleted if you have never added any alkalinity.

Alk and Ca seem important parameters,will get the tests as soon as possible,this week-end. Thank you guys for your kind help! Have a great week-end!!

 

[leptang]

i have 20+ head frogspawn and it sucks up the alkalinity in my tank and i must dose the alk every day or the tentacles retract if i miss a day of dosing of Seachem reef builder a alk additive i use. i try to maintain 8 dkh of alkalinity, but when the dkh drops to around 6 is when the frogspawn is stressed.
i would get some test kits or even have your LFS test your water, and start dosing.

 

[Oliver94]

Hello leptang Thank you for your reply,I hope this is my problem so I could solve it the quickest possible..I just came back from my LFS and got my water tested.Ca is good : 450but the alk... the LFS didn't give me a value,but he was surprised how much low it is.. he told me that it's very low..He give me a product to raise my alk,and he wanted to give me a test.. but he doesn't have anymore Kh test(other LFS doesn't have also.. I checked,I live in Lebanon and there are only 3 main fish stores that import and are serious to have the kH test..I will keep searching in case I don't find I will pass an order online),He told me to add some additive that he gave me,I don't need to worry to overdose because my alk is really low,he told me to put a teaspoon today and each 3 days add 1/2 teaspoon.And to visit him next week to get my water tested again..The product he gave me I was not totally convinced that it is to raise my kH because it is called : sera marin COMPONENT 2 Ca pH-Buffer.But in the description of the product it says to keep testing the kH,this is the description of the product:"Stabilizes the pH system in marine water aquariums.Use the sera kH-Test kit to conveniently check the carbonate hardness. Combined application provided, sera marin 1 and 2 are balanced according to the optimal pH value in saltwater and stabilize the natural buffer system in reef aquariums."What do you think? Do I miss a point? And it is correct? it is the right additive for kH? if not to return it back to the LFS.Thank you guys!!