From bryopsis to green hair algae...please help

[foxfacelo]

My 220 gal reef tank is 6 mo old. I had been struggling with bryopsis which I treated with Tech M for one mo. At the same I treated the tank with NOPOX because of high nitrates. Over the last 3 weeks I have developed a severe hair algae problem which is beginning to smother corals. Over the past 2 wks I have added 36 turbo snails, 25 margarita snails, 25 red-legged hermit crabs, and 2 tuxedo urchins. They haven't really put a dent in it. The turbo snails are very short lived.

Tank parameters: T=87; pH=8.1; NO3=0.0; PO4=0.08 ppm; Mg=1600ppm
I run a protein skimmer but have discontinued a GFO and carbon reactor as per NOPOX dosing instructions.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Triggreef]

Many will tell you po4 is too high and no 3 is probly consumed by the algae faster than you can test for it.

I don't believe either of those to be true for anyone.

My questions are simple...

1. What kind of lighting?

2. How long is it on every day. Over 8hrs per day will let algae thrive.

3. Do you have a fuge where you can grow macro algae? If so is the light on 24/7?

 

[Diesel]

You can also dose bacteria in your tank that will tackle your No3 too.
Manual remove as much as possible.
I'm not so sure about the NOPOX as it is designed to maintain a perfect # but not to tackle a large problem.
For that GFO or Macro algae is a better friend to you.

 

[Triggreef]

Yup Nopox is simply carbon dosing so it has to be done on a regular basis and will only help lower no 3 and po4 which are already fine.

 

[foxfacelo]

Many will tell you po4 is too high and no 3 is probly consumed by the algae faster than you can test for it.

I don't believe either of those to be true for anyone.

My questions are simple...

1. What kind of lighting?

2. How long is it on every day. Over 8hrs per day will let algae thrive.

3. Do you have a fuge where you can grow macro algae? If so is the light on 24/7?

LED lighting (Radion G3 pro)...12 hours on...only 4 hours intense light.
No refugium...no space in the sump
Thank you for you comments!

 

[Triggreef]

You have manual adjustment with different colors? Red spectrum promotes more algae.

Can we see more detailed light schedule?

 

[ludnix]

Many will tell you po4 is too high and no 3 is probly consumed by the algae faster than you can test for it.

I don't believe either of those to be true for anyone.

Why not?

 

[Triggreef]

Why not?

For example, po4 for this tank is upwards of .3 and the second pictured tank is higher than that.

 

[ludnix]

I think if you take a look at a tank with lots of liverock covered in GHA you'll find it difficult to get results on a phosphate test kit. There's very little algae in either of those tanks so I'm not surprised to see a detectable reading of phosphates. All living organisms need phosphates for growth and few grow as quickly as GHA, I would think it's very reasonable that the green hair algae would become a phosphate sink and store free phosphates from the water as it grows. This is the same principal as trees and fauna being a temporary carbon sink in the environment.

I agree that lighting can be the cause, but algae needs both light for energy and phosphates and nitrogens for nutrient growth. The light is the energy source for growth, but those nutrients are what gives the algae it's building material to use that energy on. A two part equation and both issues should be addressed. If foxfacelo's lights are out spectrum that could be encouraging algae growth instead of corals.

What's your feeding regime foxfacelo?

Fish stocking?

Are you trying to keep SPS or low nutrient corals?

 

[sundog101]

Don't mean to take over your thread but I have a question on how some tanks can run at higher nutrient levels without algae problems. For example, Triggereef you said those tanks are upwards of 0.3 po4. Light + CO2 + nitrogen + phosphorus should equal algae. So if those needs are met, what stops it from growing?

 

[Triggreef]

Don't mean to take over your thread but I have a question on how some tanks can run at higher nutrient levels without algae problems. For example, Triggereef you said those tanks are upwards of 0.3 po4. Light + CO2 + nitrogen + phosphorus should equal algae. So if those needs are met, what stops it from growing?

Because it absolutely is growing in other areas of the system. Where i want it to. The fuge. 24hr lighting in the fuge and that is where it will grow because it gets the best of everything it needs there.

I actually have an issue with it in my frag tank in the same system as the second tank. Due to having the lights on too long of a cycle in there, on top of my pest wrasse destroying my cuc. I've turned it down some and added a better light to the fuge now. Should be back to growing in the fuge in short order.

 

[Triggreef]

To the original poster, if you can't control it with a 24hr lit fuge, or a algae turf scrubber, or similar means you will need to get the right cuc. Ime with gha, the snails etc you listed don't touch it. Emerald crabs in large quantities which in your case I'm talking about 40 plus crabs, red mithrax crabs, and i even read @twilliard mention Sally Lightfoot crabs being great for gha but for your size tank you'd need about 34 or so.

Black trochus snails for cyano.

sea hair and sea lettuce nudibranch also do not work for gha ime. Not sure what they actually eat but it must be something that looks like hair algae i guess to have so many people recommend them.

 

[sundog101]

I run an algae scrubber on my tank and my levels are always zero. But if they do increase, algae shows up in the display and brings them right back down. My nutrient levels hardly ever go up. The only time they have risen seems to be after I manually remove a lot of algae from the display. I guess what I'm asking is why, in some cases, does algae stop, whether it be in the display, fuge, or ATS? Why doesn't it use all the available nutrients in the water?

Foxfacelo, you could also look into a bacteria product such as dr. tims waste away to speed up the process.

 

[twilliard]

First there is an imbalance in your nutrient levels.
Your po4 is exceeding your no3
This is not good for the bacteria in your tank.
If you have an algae problem it's because it has found its spot to uptake any available nutrients, even from feeding the tank.
Do not over do your clean up crew. Remember they all add amonia to the water (and waste) that algae love.
Dosing nopox is a carbon source for bacteria to thrive in return reducing your no3 levels and slight levels of po4.
Sure lighting can play a roll but that is for Photosynthesis which is seperate from nutrients.
Understanding the life of algaes will help you succeed in keeping the algae at bay.

 

[Bunnee911]

Let's see your tank.

 

[foxfacelo]

You have manual adjustment with different colors? Red spectrum promotes more algae.

Can we see more detailed light schedule?

I haven't really messed with the lights other than to adjust duration and intensity.

 

[foxfacelo]

I think if you take a look at a tank with lots of liverock covered in GHA you'll find it difficult to get results on a phosphate test kit. There's very little algae in either of those tanks so I'm not surprised to see a detectable reading of phosphates. All living organisms need phosphates for growth and few grow as quickly as GHA, I would think it's very reasonable that the green hair algae would become a phosphate sink and store free phosphates from the water as it grows. This is the same principal as trees and fauna being a temporary carbon sink in the environment.

I agree that lighting can be the cause, but algae needs both light for energy and phosphates and nitrogens for nutrient growth. The light is the energy source for growth, but those nutrients are what gives the algae it's building material to use that energy on. A two part equation and both issues should be addressed. If foxfacelo's lights are out spectrum that could be encouraging algae growth instead of corals.

What's your feeding regime foxfacelo?

Fish stocking?

Are you trying to keep SPS or low nutrient corals?

Feeding regime: once daily, I rotate between flake food, pelleted food, frozen Mysis (usually with selcon), and prime reef frozen food;
Nori sheet EOD; was using reef chili and vitamin once weekly as coral food but I haven't used them for the last two weeks

Stocking: hippo tang (4")
yellow tang (3")
foxfacelo (4")
flameback angel
flame angel
pair of tomato clowns
purple fire fish
lawnmower blenny
flame hawk
2 bangaii cardinal fish

Mixed reef, mostly softies and LPS with some SPS

 

[foxfacelo]

I run an algae scrubber on my tank and my levels are always zero. But if they do increase, algae shows up in the display and brings them right back down. My nutrient levels hardly ever go up. The only time they have risen seems to be after I manually remove a lot of algae from the display. I guess what I'm asking is why, in some cases, does algae stop, whether it be in the display, fuge, or ATS? Why doesn't it use all the available nutrients in the water?

Foxfacelo, you could also look into a bacteria product such as dr. tims waste away to speed up the process.

I'll do that...thank you!

 

[foxfacelo]

Let's see your tank.

I'll post some pics tomorrow

 

[ReeferBen]

2. How long is it on every day. Over 8hrs per day will let algae thrive.

I always have run my lights 12 hours, when I did halides it was 8-9 with actinics on 12, when I did T5's same type of deal daylights 8-9 hours and actinics 12. Now I run LEDs for 12 hours with a 2 hour sunset/rise period.

HA for me has always been a sign of poor water quality. There are many different ways to prevent it, and a clean up crew is great at keeping it in check. CC can also help consume detritus to a degree and any uneaten food. IME though a CC added to clean up a algae problem will mostly die off after the algae is in check.

I feel I can tell just as much about the water quality of my tank by looking at the algae that is blooming, if I see any HA popping up I know I am not being efficient enough in my export. Using a bacterial solution, gfo/carbon, fuge, wtc can all eliminate algae problems when done at the proper levels.

If I had to beat a badly infested tank with HA , WC with RDO/DI and a tooth brush is the best way to start. Scrub up all the HA covered rock and syphon out as much as you can in the WC. Also take either a small powerhead with a piece of tubing on it or a turkey baster and blow all the detritus you can out of the rock. LR covered in HA clogs up with detritus badly. If you have a sand bed I would syphon clean it over a few WC's in sections.

Then I would address the water quality by either increasing WC's, increasing the fuge size, running more agressive GFO/carbon, or ramp up my bacterial/carbon dosing. Also I would look into where I was adding nutrients and see if I could add less. I perfer to feed my fish plenty and deal with the removal.

Good luck to you.