Frustrated and out of ideas

[fragit]

So I'm at a total loss with my tank right now. Back in October or so I picked up 5 sps frags from my LFS. At the time I was dosing BRS two part for alk and calc demand. All those sticks were doing great, growing, great color, and polyp extension. Then at the end of November I switched to the full AquaForest line, which was always my plan. After a week all of my sps died. I thought that I had an alk spike, and low nutrients were my issue. No signs of any pests, or disease just paling corals and STN. So I figured out my dosing, got some new test kits, a dosing pump, and got all of my levels dialed in to where I want them. Every thing perfect. I got some corals for Christmas from Cultivated Reef, and a gift card to Battle Corals along with some cash. Last weekend I got 12 frags between the two vendors. They looked great for a day after I put them in the tank. Then this last week slowly, I've seen polyp retraction fading color, and have already all but lost two frags to STN. The exact symptoms I experienced in November. The rest are not looking all that good. My parameters test great, I have no stray electrical current, no pests, etc. Another thing that recently happened is that I pulled a bunch of Chaeto out of my fuge, as my nitrates were undetectable. Then a week later my Calurepa litterally melted, never in my 15 years of reefing have I seen this happen. I am at a loss and all I can think of is that this all started when I switched over to the AquaForest Balling components. There has to be a chemical imbalance that I am unable to test for from component 3 which are the mineral salts. I should probably get some Triton Tests and see what is off. I am strongly considering dumping most of the AquaForest products as it's just killing all the sps I put in the tank. Tank has been running since August (I know it's new).
Parameters
Temp 78-79
PH 8.2
Salinity 1.025
Alk 7.6 (bringing it up to 8dkh to see if that has any positive effects. Increasing it with BRS two part)
Calc 460
Mag 1340
Nitrate 2-3
Phosphate 0.037
I've also been reading on the tanks based on AquaForest thread that somebody has been testing freshly mixed salt water and has been getting readings on mag in the 1600s. I'm starting to loose a little faith in their products. Anybody have any ideas/recommendations of what to do. I'm bummed, frustrated and out of ideas.

 

[john.m.cole3]

Since parameters are in check, I would accuse lighting as the next culprit. did you light acclimate these frags? Paling and fading sounds like the lights are too strong. would you mind telling us about your lights and their schedule? @saltyfilmfolks @mcarroll #reefsquad

 

[Brew12]

I am a bit confused by one issue. What do you think is in your tank that is consuming the Alk and Calc that is requiring the dosing? Do you already have a large amount of coraline algae built up? Or do you have corals other than SPS's and they are doing ok?

 

[fragit]

Since parameters are in check, I would accuse lighting as the next culprit. did you light acclimate these frags? Paling and fading sounds like the lights are too strong. would you mind telling us about your lights and their schedule? @saltyfilmfolks @mcarroll #reefsquad

I use 2 Orphek Atlantik V3 compact fixtures. Had par reading done when I got the lights, with all channels at 100% the highest readings we 400-450. I run my lights much lower, Actinic Channel at 100%, whites at 70%, UV 70% and blue/red at 60%. If you know anything about the Orphek presets, my settings are a cross between the 20K setting and Coral Color setting. Peak lighting is 5 hours.

 

[fragit]

I am a bit confused by one issue. What do you think is in your tank that is consuming the Alk and Calc that is requiring the dosing? Do you already have a large amount of coraline algae built up? Or do you have corals other than SPS's and they are doing ok?

I started the tank with dry Pukani which was white. It's now all dark purple so yes plenty of coralline growing. I have 2 monti caps and a forest fire digi that seem to be doing okay, my jedi mind trick has definitely faded a little. I also have a hammer, and a heliopora which have been with me since I started stocking corals and they are doing fine.

 

[bios]

Pics will help

 

[fragit]

I knew someone was going to ask for pics! I won't be able to get any today, I will add some crappy cell photos tomorrow.

 

[alten78]

What kind of frags did you get? Did you start them low in the tank (maybe too much light right off the bat?) What is your cal/alk consumption per day? Are you testing daily and then adding what was consumed? Do you have any corals left in the tank that you've had for awhile and if so how are they doing?

 

[fragit]

What kind of frags did you get? Did you start them low in the tank (maybe too much light right off the bat?) What is your cal/alk consumption per day? Are you testing daily and then adding what was consumed? Do you have any corals left in the tank that you've had for awhile and if so how are they doing?

I had them low in the tank for a day, I know that they were in high lighting before I got them. From Battle Corals I got a Reef Ready Grape Juice, RR Excalibur Monit, Jedi Mind Trick, Forest Fire Digi, BC Blue Sniper, Pelleti Yellow Tip. From Cultivated Reef I got a season's greetings Monti cap, Orange Monti Cap, Red Planet, No name Pink Milli, and a Strawberry fields acro. The light in my tank is in the mid 300s where they were placed. I'm not sure exactly what the consumption is per day so to speak. I've been dosing 48mL of aquaforest balling fluids daily. Component 1 is Calc/Mg, Component 2 is Alk and Component 3 is mineral salts. I've been testing all multiple times a week, and alk daily. For the last month+ alk has been steady at 7.3-7.6, Calc 440-460 and Mg 1340-1360 no changes at all. I have a hammer coral and heliopora that have been with me for about3 months and are doing fine.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@fragit Im honestly not qualified to speak to a more seasoned SPS keeper. All I can do is suggest and help the trouble shoot.
With the coralline amounts described and you livestock I wanted to assume t5 lighting and lower pars.(higher pur imo). Its been my observation that under higher pars Purple coralline disappears.
Did you use the Probiotic salts?
The complicated test and troubleshooting would involve the Triton Test. The simple would be the salt switch questions and recent additions health as far as temps. SO the two events may not be related.

And my best recommend would be to ask a real expert. @Diesel

 

[Pife]

When are you dosing and how much and how spread out? Have you successfully kept sps for any length of time?

 

[Mark2480]

I'm and old guy so I am probably wrong but i had a similar problem once when i added my frag tank to my main display. I did'nt notice that my alk which I normally maintain at 8.6 dropped to 7.5. it only affected the sps but what im thinking is that if the frags you are buying are kept at a higher alk lets say 9 and then they are going into you're tank which is 7.6 it might affect them negatively. Again I am not a pro and never will be but i'm thinking that could be related. Anyway hope you get the problem fixed.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm and old guy so I am probably wrong but i had a similar problem once when i added my frag tank to my main display. I did'nt notice that my alk which I normally maintain at 8.6 dropped to 7.5. it only affected the sps but what im thinking is that if the frags you are buying are kept at a higher alk lets say 9 and then they are going into you're tank which is 7.6 it might affect them negatively. Again I am not a pro and never will be but i'm thinking that could be related. Anyway hope you get the problem fixed.

This is actually the advice Ive gotten from all the older SPS gurus I know in person.
AS a newer reefer, I went with much much longer acclimations.

 

[Frop]

@fragit Its been my observation that under higher pars Purple coralline disappears.

I finally had some purple algae on my pump near the waters surface. Turned the lights up a little and most of it went white.

 

[diablomaster9045]

I had the same problem with aqua forest salt. Lots of loss of polyp extension. Some STN'ing. I stopped using it and shifted back to Fritz RPM and no problems since. I unfortunately did not do any testing on the fresh saltwater. I wish I had. I personally think it's Aquaforest products. I personally will never use there products again. But maybe toss a polyfilter in the tank and see what color it turns? Might identify a hidden problem.

On a side note: Highly recommend Fritz RPM salt. I have tested it several times and never broke out of 5% deviation from 8 dkh, 420 calc, 1380 mag. Used it for 3 years out in CO before moving to the east coast and had to swap because no vendors would sell fritz out here. Tried IO it was ok, then someone ordered some Auqaforest and gave that a shot for 4 months and things we heading downhill. And Premium Aquatics finally started offering Fritz on there website so ordered it up and I will stick with it.

 

[john.m.cole3]

I went from AF to Fritz also. Very happy.

 

[fragit]

When are you dosing and how much and how spread out? Have you successfully kept sps for any length of time?

I have been dosing 6mL of each component 8 times a day in 3 hour increments. I just recently (last night) upped my alk to 6.5mL, and dropped the component 3 (mineral salts) to 2mL both 8 times daily. So currently alk is being dosed at 52mL, Calc/Mg 48mL, and mineral salt 16mL daily divided into 8 equal doses. I had a pretty successful sps tank about 8 years ago, until I had a broken heater and hydrometer issue. Learned my lesson about those two things big time, been in the hobby for about 15 years, this is my 4th system.

I'm and old guy so I am probably wrong but i had a similar problem once when i added my frag tank to my main display. I did'nt notice that my alk which I normally maintain at 8.6 dropped to 7.5. it only affected the sps but what im thinking is that if the frags you are buying are kept at a higher alk lets say 9 and then they are going into you're tank which is 7.6 it might affect them negatively. Again I am not a pro and never will be but i'm thinking that could be related. Anyway hope you get the problem fixed.

I thought of this too, and am/have been an old school reefer in most of my experience. I decided this morning to increase my alk to 8dkh and try and keep it steady there to see how that effects them. I know that Adam at Battle Corals keeps his between 8-9, and I believe that Greg at Cultivated Reef does similar.

This is actually the advice Ive gotten from all the older SPS gurus I know in person.
AS a newer reefer, I went with much much longer acclimations.

I've never acclimated corals in the past other than a temp acclimation. They typically do just fine. But I have been wondering and took action about going from a system at one level to one lower.

I finally had some purple algae on my pump near the waters surface. Turned the lights up a little and most of it went white.

I've got coralline growing on my over flow, and on the glass. I have had what your referring to happen in the past, but not in this current system.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Isnt it weird that tanks seem to like or dislike a product? We know all of them work and work well, but not always in our/my tank.
I had a similar prob this year with RCSP, and yes I've used it before, but not in THIS tank.

 

[fragit]

I had the same problem with aqua forest salt. Lots of loss of polyp extension. Some STN'ing. I stopped using it and shifted back to Fritz RPM and no problems since. I unfortunately did not do any testing on the fresh saltwater. I wish I had. I personally think it's Aquaforest products. I personally will never use there products again. But maybe toss a polyfilter in the tank and see what color it turns? Might identify a hidden problem.

On a side note: Highly recommend Fritz RPM salt. I have tested it several times and never broke out of 5% deviation from 8 dkh, 420 calc, 1380 mag. Used it for 3 years out in CO before moving to the east coast and had to swap because no vendors would sell fritz out here. Tried IO it was ok, then someone ordered some Auqaforest and gave that a shot for 4 months and things we heading downhill. And Premium Aquatics finally started offering Fritz on there website so ordered it up and I will stick with it.

I went from AF to Fritz also. Very happy.

Thanks guys I have a huge bucket of the AF salt, I really don't want to waste it. Maybe I could sell it off to my LFS for credit. I'm not sure it is the salt though, but who knows.

 

[hybridazn]

Did you happen to test the alk levels of the water the frags came in compared to yours? It almost sounds like they were shocked by a big difference in alk