Frustrated...what am I doing wrong?

[sundog101]

I've had the hardest time stocking my tank. I can't seem to get any fish in without them dying, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. So far, 3 out of 3 angels have died and my new royal gramma is looking like he's going to be next.

Here's my QT/ acclimation procedure
- QT is 29g Biocube in low traffic area
- I have a few rocks and multiple pvc hides, also have a very thin layer of sand (take rock and sand out if meds are needed)
- Sides have black paper to reduce stress
- Keep new fish in low lit area and overall try to keep stress low
- Match salinity, temp, and pH of bag water (used to float and acclimate, but tried this after seeing Austin Levefere's MACNA talk)
- Keep lights off first day (I have low powered leds)
- Start trying to feed that evening or next morning (offer small amounts twice or 3 times daily)
- I use mysis, clams, white worms, blackworms, oysters, and sometimes flakes or pellets
- Qt for 30 days

It seems that the fish are just really stressed. They seem to hide, not come out, and never eat. From there it's downhill. For reference, I've gotten 6 fish in the past 7 or 8 months; 3...most likely 4 have died.
Any ideas? Just bad luck or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for the help!

 

[melypr1985]

Are the fish showing any symptoms before they die? What spots, a dusty appearance, gasping or heavy breathing, flashing or scratching, yawning?

What are you using for bio media? Seeded sponge? Do you have an ammonia alert badge? Are you treating with any meds?

 

[sundog101]

They normally hide and don't eat. A couple have had bacterial infections but no ich or velvet. No flashing or scratching. No really noticeable heavy breathing past the first day or so.

I use bioballs and a sponge for media. When starting fresh, I cycle the tank for a month just to be safe. I don't have an ammonia alert badge, but I check it occasionally with with an API test kit.

I'm not treating with any meds currently. I don't normally prophylactically treat.

 

[melypr1985]

When you purchase them, are you making sure they are eating before taking them home? Do you know if the store you are getting them from is treating with any meds in their system like copper?

 

[40B Knasty]

Have you cycled the tank?

 

[sundog101]

When you purchase them, are you making sure they are eating before taking them home? Do you know if the store you are getting them from is treating with any meds in their system like copper?

Yes I normally see them eat. The lfs wasn't running copper, at least at the time I got them. I don't believe they run any other meds, but I'll check to be sure next time I'm there.

Have you cycled the tank?

Yes

 

[ws6kid]

I was wondering the same about a cycle. If the water, rocks, and sand did not come from an established aquarium or get through the full nitrogen cycle, the ammonia would do it for sure.

Hard to say otherwise. On the surface, it looks like you are doing it right.

 

[Tahoe61]

Check the SG at the store you're getting the fish at.

 

[drawman]

I would completely eliminate the rock and sand from the equation no real need to use it unless you need sand for a burrowing wrasse.

Are you doing any prophylactic treatment other than copper (like a freshwater dip)? You may want to consider copper or TTM.

Are you breaking the tank down after QT attempt to sterilize?

I would also consider switching sources where you get your fish from they may have something in their system.

 

[sundog101]

I was wondering the same about a cycle. If the water, rocks, and sand did not come from an established aquarium or get through the full nitrogen cycle, the ammonia would do it for sure.

Hard to say otherwise. On the surface, it looks like you are doing it right.

I started the cycle with some rock rubble from the DT. I then took it out once it got going. I've been ghost feeding some flake food until it's cycled and ammonia is stable.

Check the SG at the store you're getting the fish at.

Luckly I've been matching the salinity. I checked when I first started that and SG was 1.014! They recommend a two hour drip acclimation but I don't see how any fish would survive over a 10 point jump.

I would completely eliminate the rock and sand from the equation no real need to use it unless you need sand for a burrowing wrasse.

Are you doing any prophylactic treatment other than copper (like a freshwater dip)? You may want to consider copper or TTM.

Are you breaking the tank down after QT attempt to sterilize?

I would also consider switching sources where you get your fish from they may have something in their system.

No FW dips or other treatments. I have not been breaking down the tank after every fish. I think I will sterilize everything and start fresh next time.
I may try a different source. The lfs is normally a really good store, but running systems at 1.014 and not telling people doesn't make me feel to good.

 

[drawman]

No FW dips or other treatments. I have not been breaking down the tank after every fish. I think I will sterilize everything and start fresh next time.
I may try a different source. The lfs is normally a really good store, but running systems at 1.014 and not telling people doesn't make me feel to good.

It is very possible that you've introduced something (worst case velvet) into this QT. Without a sufficient fallow period it can infect every new fish. I would break it down, disinfect, and let everything sufficiently dry out (ie bioballs and maybe replace the sponge or both).

If you buy from the same LFS you may want to try copper, chloroquine phosphate, or TTM instead of observation alone.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

A few ideas come to mind:
Check equipment. You may have stray voltage from heater or power head, do you have a heater no mention of one.
Try a different setup. plain 20 gallon or 40 gallon breeder. Keep it simple.
Don't over feed.
Try buying fish from a different source.

 

[Brew12]

Match salinity, temp, and pH of bag water

This is the method I use and love it, with the exception of matching pH. Unless you use a solution prepared in advance to adjust pH I just wouldn't worry about it. The powdered pH additives can do more harm than good to the fish if they aren't completely dissolved in advance.

I use mysis, clams, white worms, blackworms, oysters, and sometimes flakes or pellets

Since you are buying them from a LFS, find out exactly what the fish is eating for them, and their feeding schedule. Try to mimick it as much as possible.

A couple have had bacterial infections but no ich or velvet.

Normally a bacterial infection is a result of an underlying condition. Either an injury or parasitic infection although high stress can make them vulnerable without an underlying cause.

The lfs is normally a really good store, but running systems at 1.014 and not telling people doesn't make me feel to good.

Fish stores like to run low salinity for fish only systems for 2 reasons. First is that they use less salt so water changes are cheaper. The second is that low salinity can slow the reproductive rate of parasites like ich and velvet. Fish are much less likely to show symptoms in the store but when the buyer gets them home and starts raising salinity the parasites can flourish.

 

[jsker]

My suggestion would be to use vitamins for stress. Vitamin C is really good for for healing and for stress. I use Vitimarin M and C in my system. I would also use for the first week, dose Metroplex with focus to bind the antibiotic to your frozen food along with the vitamins to stop and boost the immune systems of the new additions.

 

[Tahoe61]

A 3 hour acclimation is not long enough to transition a fish from an SG of 1.014 to 1.025ish. I would suspect osmolality shock. Try to bring up the quarantine's SG from the store's SG more slowly, you want to bring it up by no more than .02 per day until you reach your target SG in the display.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

Sounds right!

 

[sundog101]

Check equipment. You may have stray voltage from heater or power head, do you have a heater no mention of one.

I do have a heater, and it is an older one. I'll check stray voltage later tonight.

A 3 hour acclimation is not long enough to transition a fish from an SG of 1.014 to 1.025ish. I would suspect osmolality shock. Try to bring up the quarantine's SG from the store's SG more slowly, you want to bring it up by no more than .02 per day until you reach your target SG in the display.

I've been matching the salinity to the store's water. If they want to run a lower SG that's fine, but the lfs really needs to tell people that they keep their systems that low. Then again, I doubt most customers qt.

Thanks for the other suggestions

 

[Tahoe61]

One has to match the difference in store's SG and the home/display/qt SG over days to be absolutely safe. It's not uncommon for stores to run lower specific gravity. If it's not a disease process or toxin associated with the water source or predatory issue there is not much else to rule out, except collection.

 

[sundog101]

Ugh... last fish in QT died. I'm defiantly sterilizing everything before any new additions...which will probably be a while.

 

[melypr1985]

Ugh... last fish in QT died. I'm defiantly sterilizing everything before any new additions...which will probably be a while.

I'm sorry for your losses