Frustrated with my Geo Calcium Reactor

mitch91175 · Sep 18, 2018

Water Dog said:
Don’t overthink it. Looks like everyone setting up to push through the reactor is doing just fine with no bubble issues.

Thanks for the calming advice @Water Dog.

geo · Sep 19, 2018

If you have issues and need my help please email me directly. This will get my attention within minutes and I always review emails almost immediately. The @geo deal most likely will not get my attention nearly as quick.

Let me read through this thread and I will PM help for each.

As far as set up with peristaltic pumps you want to push water not pull. Pulling may actually draw air through a push to connect fitting if not properely or completly seated. I believe this from my experiences that push to connect fittings seal better with pressure behind them and this may be the cause of the issue in one of the cases above. I have spoke to a manufacture of these types of fittings and they say they work either way but in our discussion it seemed more likely to draw air in under suction. Maybe there is someone out there that may have a definitive answer regarding the push to connect fittings?

Here are a couple of quick points to get the air out for first setting up the reactor.
1. soak new media in water for 12 hours to saturate and get micro bubbles out.
2. fill reactor with water by hand with lid off until almost full. Then put lid on.
3. run only feed pump for 6-8 hours to get air out of reactor.
4. cycle the recirculation pump a couple times while only running the feed pump to clear the manifold of air pockets.
5. after the majority of air is out then turn on recirculation pump for a couple of hours then CO2.

Thank you,
GEO

Bpb · Sep 19, 2018

FWIW I pull with my reactor and have no air leaks. GEO 618 with masterflex pump

Water Dog · Sep 19, 2018

Bpb said:
FWIW I pull with my reactor and have no air leaks. GEO 618 with masterflex pump

Do you have the old school 618 with the Jaco fittings or are you using John Guest push connect fittings?

Hot2na · Sep 19, 2018

shoulda got an MTC Pro-cal...has an auto vent feature...

Bpb · Sep 19, 2018

Water Dog said:
Do you have the old school 618 with the Jaco fittings or are you using John Guest push connect fittings?

New one with JG.

d2mini · Sep 19, 2018

Hot2na said:
shoulda got an MTC Pro-cal...has an auto vent feature...

How does that help with air leaks? Isn't that for excess C02? Which a decent CaRx shouldn't have.

I agree that the John Guest fittings are probably the issue for some of us. I had a recent air leak recently due to a loose fitting john guest/tubing connection in the input. Was an easy fix. Doh.

Alex Srougo · Oct 20, 2018

This was my solution. Just lower the port on the top of the CA to allow to work with less water as I used the Kaomer to feed and no needle valve

Hope this helps

Alex Srougo · Oct 21, 2018

geo said:
If you have issues and need my help please email me directly. This will get my attention within minutes and I always review emails almost immediately. The @geo deal most likely will not get my attention nearly as quick.

Let me read through this thread and I will PM help for each.

As far as set up with peristaltic pumps you want to push water not pull. Pulling may actually draw air through a push to connect fitting if not properely or completly seated. I believe this from my experiences that push to connect fittings seal better with pressure behind them and this may be the cause of the issue in one of the cases above. I have spoke to a manufacture of these types of fittings and they say they work either way but in our discussion it seemed more likely to draw air in under suction. Maybe there is someone out there that may have a definitive answer regarding the push to connect fittings?

Here are a couple of quick points to get the air out for first setting up the reactor.
1. soak new media in water for 12 hours to saturate and get micro bubbles out.
2. fill reactor with water by hand with lid off until almost full. Then put lid on.
3. run only feed pump for 6-8 hours to get air out of reactor.
4. cycle the recirculation pump a couple times while only running the feed pump to clear the manifold of air pockets.
5. after the majority of air is out then turn on recirculation pump for a couple of hours then CO2.

Thank you,
GEO

Let’s say all is correct, no leaks.
If we continue with the air bubbles is because there is no enough water in?
I used to have no issue regarding bubbles when running a normal feed pump. Problems started with the Kaomer

Gabaghoul · Oct 21, 2018

Very interesting you bring this up. That is exactly what I have experienced. The only reason I got the Kamoer was to ensure consistent effluent which I was not - it was fairly consistent but not enough precision for me. I was using the recommended Sicce .5 pump as feed and a pinch valve supplied by Serdar previously which was working but still I was finding I needed to adjust when the effluent slowed which was probably every 3-7 days depending.

Anyway, I never had a problem with bubbles in the main chamber until I hooked up the Kamoer about 3 days ago. I unhooked the Sicce and replaced it with the Kamoer and noticed within an hour there were bubbles in the chamber which I thought was odd so I shut down the CO2 until all the bubbles were gone which did happen after several hours. At that point, I turned back on the CO2 but at a much lower rate of 5 BPM. (I was running at 1 bpm and 70ml/minute previously). No bubbles but the pH was no where near the melting point, so every hour or so I added a bit more CO2, from 5 to 4 to 3bpm, watching to see that no bubbles were present. There werent but after a number of hours at 3 bpm which is what was required to maintain a pH of 6.77 at 70ml/min solid, the bubbles started to appear again. After about a day, the bubbles are back but the pH is rock solid so I'm wondering what to do at this point.

Makes me wonder if pressure is required in the chamber to dissipate the CO2 properly. Thats the only difference I can see. I went from Sicce to Kamoer and Pinch Valve to open(no valve).

Water Dog · Oct 21, 2018

Gabaghoul said:
Very interesting you bring this up. That is exactly what I have experienced. The only reason I got the Kamoer was to ensure consistent effluent which I was not - it was fairly consistent but not enough precision for me. I was using the recommended Sicce .5 pump as feed and a pinch valve supplied by Serdar previously which was working but still I was finding I needed to adjust when the effluent slowed which was probably every 3-7 days depending.

Anyway, I never had a problem with bubbles in the main chamber until I hooked up the Kamoer about 3 days ago. I unhooked the Sicce and replaced it with the Kamoer and noticed within an hour there were bubbles in the chamber which I thought was odd so I shut down the CO2 until all the bubbles were gone which did happen after several hours. At that point, I turned back on the CO2 but at a much lower rate of 5 BPM. (I was running at 1 bpm and 70ml/minute previously). No bubbles but the pH was no where near the melting point, so every hour or so I added a bit more CO2, from 5 to 4 to 3bpm, watching to see that no bubbles were present. There werent but after a number of hours at 3 bpm which is what was required to maintain a pH of 6.77 at 70ml/min solid, the bubbles started to appear again. After about a day, the bubbles are back but the pH is rock solid so I'm wondering what to do at this point.

Makes me wonder if pressure is required in the chamber to dissipate the CO2 properly. Thats the only difference I can see. I went from Sicce to Kamoer and Pinch Valve to open(no valve).

With the Kamoer, are you pushing or pulling? From what I’ve gathered from reading this thread so far, it appears that the bubble issue seems to be an issue specifically when pulling, not pushing. So I’m curious as to how you’re running your Kamoer.

Gabaghoul · Oct 21, 2018

It replaced my feed pump which was pushing.

Water Dog · Oct 21, 2018

I’m beginning to wonder if the John Guest quick connect fittings could be the source of the leaks if the rigid RO tubing used isn’t cut perfectly flush... If we replaced the quick connect fittings with barbed connections, would the apparent leaks go away?

Gabaghoul · Oct 21, 2018

What rate (BPM and ml/min) are you running or trying to run for what pH inside the reactor? I'm using Reborn and ReMag BTW. Been working great for over a year except for the inconsistent effluent.

Water Dog · Oct 21, 2018

Not set up yet... just planning how I’ll set everything up.

Alex Srougo · Oct 21, 2018

Gabaghoul said:
Very interesting you bring this up. That is exactly what I have experienced. The only reason I got the Kamoer was to ensure consistent effluent which I was not - it was fairly consistent but not enough precision for me. I was using the recommended Sicce .5 pump as feed and a pinch valve supplied by Serdar previously which was working but still I was finding I needed to adjust when the effluent slowed which was probably every 3-7 days depending.

Anyway, I never had a problem with bubbles in the main chamber until I hooked up the Kamoer about 3 days ago. I unhooked the Sicce and replaced it with the Kamoer and noticed within an hour there were bubbles in the chamber which I thought was odd so I shut down the CO2 until all the bubbles were gone which did happen after several hours. At that point, I turned back on the CO2 but at a much lower rate of 5 BPM. (I was running at 1 bpm and 70ml/minute previously). No bubbles but the pH was no where near the melting point, so every hour or so I added a bit more CO2, from 5 to 4 to 3bpm, watching to see that no bubbles were present. There werent but after a number of hours at 3 bpm which is what was required to maintain a pH of 6.77 at 70ml/min solid, the bubbles started to appear again. After about a day, the bubbles are back but the pH is rock solid so I'm wondering what to do at this point.

Makes me wonder if pressure is required in the chamber to dissipate the CO2 properly. Thats the only difference I can see. I went from Sicce to Kamoer and Pinch Valve to open(no valve).

Well I tried to lower the imput of the water inside the reactor but made me nervous.
So I put the efluent out put higher that the CA and no bubbles any more.
I already check The efluent volumen and it is perfect.
I guess just placing the efluent hose like 3 cm higher that the output on the CA allowed the CA to completely fill up before letting the water out.
I had to do a little of work as my CA is higher that my tank, but no problem at all.
Let me
Know if you need pictures of that

Regards

Gabaghoul · Oct 21, 2018

Alex Srougo said:
Well I tried to lower the imput of the water inside the reactor but made me nervous.
So I put the efluent out put higher that the CA and no bubbles any more.
I already check The efluent volumen and it is perfect.
I guess just placing the efluent hose like 3 cm higher that the output on the CA allowed the CA to completely fill up before letting the water out.
I had to do a little of work as my CA is higher that my tank, but no problem at all.
Let me
Know if you need pictures of that

Regards

Interesting. I would love to see some pics of that setup and the relation of your CaRX output to the effluent hose to your sump?

BTW, what rate (BPM and ml/min) are you trying to achieve for what pH inside the reactor?

ca1ore · Oct 27, 2018

Hot2na said:
shoulda got an MTC Pro-cal...has an auto vent feature...

Which mostly does not work, and is unnecessary anyhow. The first thing I did with my ProCal when I got it was to remove the float.

I have always run my peri pump to pull rather than push. Keeps grit and detritus out of the peri tubes and they last longer. ProCal doesn’t use John guest fittings though.

mitch91175 · Oct 27, 2018

For those that are having the air bubble issue in the chamber, you need to have it pressurized. I was pushing with my Kamoer and switched to pulling (which honestly is much more consistent effluent) and feeding using my manifold and all the bubble issues have gone away completely.

Water Dog · Oct 27, 2018

mitch91175 said:
For those that are having the air bubble issue in the chamber, you need to have it pressurized. I was pushing with my Kamoer and switched to pulling (which honestly is much more consistent effluent) and feeding using my manifold and all the bubble issues have gone away completely.

To be clear... now you’re using the Kamoer to pull effluent through the reactor while maintaining pressure by having the feed water attached to a manifold?