Frustrating - Neptune support

[Greybeard]

So... good friend of mine had a 250DD that started leaking. We had it empty in like 3 hours, mess cleaned up in 5. Happily, I was able to come in with a couple 100g rubbermaid troughs. Don't think he's going to loose much, though exactly where he goes from here is anyone's guess.

Anyway, after tearing his system down, I was going to reconnect his Apex to run his lights over the tubs. Apex went into a weird mode, orange, green, purple, repeat. Endless cycle. I know, water damage, right? Not so fast... his Apex was mounted in a cabinet next to the tank. Not a drop of water got into that cabinet. The EB832 was also mounted in that cabinet. None of those components got wet, none of the cables were on the floor... I can't see how any of the electronics could have gotten wet. Red Sea Gyre controllers were right next to the Apex, they work fine. Inkbird heater controller... all of the other mounted electronics, mounted to the cabinet wall, all work fine.

So... bad Apex EL. Purchased from BRS beginning of March, this year. Tried to reset it with the pinhole 'reset' button, it had no effect. Called Neptune, told 'em what was going on, they want to cross ship, for a $200 temporary credit card charge. Ok, fine.

Received the new Apex today. Not an EL... it's a full Apex. Fine by me, but they certainly knew we were working on an EL base. Came in a plain brown box with some bubble wrap, a return label, and an invoice.

Plugged it into the EB832. Nothing. No lights, no nothing.


I even took it to my sump closet, unplugged the aquabus line from _my_ ApexEL, and plugged it into the new one they just sent me. Nothing. No lights, no response at all. Known good cable, known good EB832.

Base unit is DOA.

Why would Neptune send out an untested unit to a customer who is already experiencing a problem?

Where's the quality control, Neptune?

Happily, in this instance, the tank is down for an uncertain time, he's already got some old timers running his lights. Going to be a while before he's really going to need this Apex again.

 

[_AV]

Welcome to modern day reef equipment support

They don't send back new replacement units. Those are customer returns at best. Refurbished and, evidently, with very little quality control. And they are ok with that because statistically they still come out ahead, especially considering the cost of labor to do proper refurb.

Even if every other unit turns out to be bad and they have to ship it again, the cost of shipping is still less than the cost of a full time employee testing every single return unit prior to shipping. So they let you do the testing instead, your time is free to them.

 

[FMF0331]

Ahhhhh, Neptune .... i had problems with them too.
Not surprised with their customer service/support.

 

[Justanano]

That's why I refuse to buy anymore from them

 

[ScottB]

Can be frustrating I agree. The hardware is just so-so quality, but the software (& Fusion) is great IMO. I've only ever had an Energy bar go out, and just replaced it full up. Given the reputation of "support", I just use the community forum for everything. I find it extremely helpful. https://forum.neptunesystems.com/

Also immensely helpful are the tutorials authored by @SuncrestReef that I view as an essential starting point for understanding how all the pieces go together.

 

[Eli Smoke]

Just for giggles did you try powering up the apex with a 12vdc power supply?

 

[Bj’s Reef]

I’m following to see what happens.

 

[AJsReef]

Neptune ecosystem is definitely a money pit, 2x EB832 and 2x FMM as replacements for me. Each last right at 1 year...

 

[Greybeard]

Just a resolution note... Original issue was on April 17. I received a working replacement on May 3. Three full weeks. As I said before, the owner still doesn't have a tank to put the replacement unit on yet, but if this had not been a tank blow up... 3 weeks seems like a long time to wait for such a critical piece of equipment.

Oh, and I've still got a $200 charge on my credit card. Hopefully, that'll be credited back to me once they receive the two broken Apex units. I mailed them out yesterday.

 

[Bj’s Reef]

Any updates?

 

[Greybeard]

Any updates?

Not yet. I've got a working Apex EL, still have a $200 charge on my card, which I expect will be refunded in time. Been 5 days, but that includes a weekend. If I've not received the refund by the end of the week, I'll be calling to find out why.

Slow and painful, would be my overall opinion of Apex support... and no, this isn't my first go round with them.

 

[robbyg]

Welcome to modern day reef equipment support

They don't send back new replacement units. Those are customer returns at best. Refurbished and, evidently, with very little quality control. And they are ok with that because statistically they still come out ahead, especially considering the cost of labor to do proper refurb.

Even if every other unit turns out to be bad and they have to ship it again, the cost of shipping is still less than the cost of a full time employee testing every single return unit prior to shipping. So they let you do the testing instead, your time is free to them.

I have a hard time believing that they don’t do even the basic checks like plugging it in and checking to see that it boots. I agree that they probably don’t do a deep dive checking every port etc.
My guess is that someone screwed up and sent him another in for repair unit by mistake.

 

[Greybeard]

Finally did get the $200 charge off of my card.

I'd consider the matter resolved at this point.

I'd also seriously consider changing to a different platform, if there was one available that would do what my Apex is doing, at a reasonable cost, I'd be all over it.

Let's run this down. I'm using 16 controlled outlets, 2x pH probes, 1x Temp probe, 3x dosing pumps (I have 1 Apex DOS and one BRS dosing pump). Auto feeding system, LED night lights configured to use real lunar cycle times, and automated Alk/Calk/Mag testing. The trending of that data really does give you a window into tank health that I'd be unwilling to do without at this point. I also have 4x water level sensors and 1 button connected to the system, controlling water changes and mixing station refills. I'm also using the Apex 0-10vdc outputs to control my Tunze pumps. No way to get the kind of flow patterns I want without it.

Hydros? Nope. Nowhere near capable.

The only other platform I'm aware of that might work is GHL. I have zero experience with them, but what I've read is encouraging.

In order to switch to ProfiLux, I'd need the base unit, 1 added PB6, 1 PB4 (That's 16 outlets), KH Director + 4 pump doser, plus a few misc. sensors, cables, etc. About two grand, plus a bit. Not bad, really... gotta figure I've got that into my Apex system at this point. Still loosing automated calc and mag testing, have to replace my moonlight and my auto fish feeder... Add in the time and headache involved in migrating to a new platform.

Nope. I'm pretty well stuck.

 

[n2585722]

Finally did get the $200 charge off of my card.

I'd consider the matter resolved at this point.

I'd also seriously consider changing to a different platform, if there was one available that would do what my Apex is doing, at a reasonable cost, I'd be all over it.

Let's run this down. I'm using 16 controlled outlets, 2x pH probes, 1x Temp probe, 3x dosing pumps (I have 1 Apex DOS and one BRS dosing pump). Auto feeding system, LED night lights configured to use real lunar cycle times, and automated Alk/Calk/Mag testing. The trending of that data really does give you a window into tank health that I'd be unwilling to do without at this point. I also have 4x water level sensors and 1 button connected to the system, controlling water changes and mixing station refills. I'm also using the Apex 0-10vdc outputs to control my Tunze pumps. No way to get the kind of flow patterns I want without it.

Hydros? Nope. Nowhere near capable.

The only other platform I'm aware of that might work is GHL. I have zero experience with them, but what I've read is encouraging.

In order to switch to ProfiLux, I'd need the base unit, 1 added PB6, 1 PB4 (That's 16 outlets), KH Director + 4 pump doser, plus a few misc. sensors, cables, etc. About two grand, plus a bit. Not bad, really... gotta figure I've got that into my Apex system at this point. Still loosing automated calc and mag testing, have to replace my moonlight and my auto fish feeder... Add in the time and headache involved in migrating to a new platform.

Nope. I'm pretty well stuck.

The only thing I can see that the Hydros does not do at the moment is lunar lights. I have the Hydros system and I control ATO,AWC and All for Reef dosing along with auto refill of my DI tank, Mix tank. It will also automatically transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank when the fresh saltwater tank goes low if the mix tank is ready to go. I use the drive ports to power the dosing pumps used for dosing, ATO and AWC. Drive ports are also used for the DI refill solenoid and mix tank refill solenoid. I have 7 control units in a collective. 4 are in the garage with my storage tanks and dosing pumps. Three are at the tank. You can have up to 8 wifi devices such as fish feeder or wifi power strips. I only have 5 devices at the moment. I did not trust wifi with ATO, AWC and dosing so I used the 6 drive ports from three control units to control those. That is 6 power outlets I did not need. So that saved me 2 wifi strips. The wifi Hydros fish feeder I have is almost a dead ringer for the Eheim feeder I was using. Also the Hydros controls my RODI unit.

 

[reefiniteasy]

I would join the Hydros forum and Facebook group. I am almost certain you can do all you are doing now.

@JeffB418 maybe you can chime in on whether Greybeard can accomplish what he has with his Apex with the Hydros.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Just a resolution note... Original issue was on April 17. I received a working replacement on May 3. Three full weeks. As I said before, the owner still doesn't have a tank to put the replacement unit on yet, but if this had not been a tank blow up... 3 weeks seems like a long time to wait for such a critical piece of equipment.

Oh, and I've still got a $200 charge on my credit card. Hopefully, that'll be credited back to me once they receive the two broken Apex units. I mailed them out yesterday.

That's not terrible actually, and there's a strong argument that a controller is far far from being a critical piece of equipment. Glad you got a working unit finally!

 

[Stain]

All I picture is those two cup cakes on the neptune youtube channel with their ball caps who act like children, running customer support, slapping random buttons and just giggling at every ticket. I am also knee deep in netpune products, and their two reps make me cringe.