Frustrating tank build: need advice

[MONTANTK]

So I got back into the hobby again after leaving for about 2 years. So far it’s not going well. I set up the tank 2 weeks ago. Put in some zoas about 5 days ago and only one frag is opening out of 5. Added 3 snails and they died.

As a background the tank was set up with real reef live rock (it came wet). I have set up about 5 tanks with this stuff and never had any ammonia or nitrites from the cycle or even nitrates above 20. Haven’t bothered to test that stuff because of it.

Originally I thought temperature fluctuations were the issue but that has since been controlled and they were nothing super crazy. I became skeptical of my refractometer given its age so I decided to have my LFS test my salinity. I was getting salinity of 1.026 but my LFS got 1.016 on their digital refractometer twice. This made sense to me given the snails death. Bought a new refractometer that came calibrated and this one is reading the exact same as my old one, 1.026. I have some calibration solution arriving in a few days but right now I’m totally baffled. Anyone have any other ideas? Tank is 7.4g no fish right now.

 

[Brett S]

Haven’t bothered to test that stuff because of it.

I think this might have a lot to do with it. You really need to test ammonia at a minimum here. While it‘s quite possible that using wet rock will help you avoid a cycle it’s also possible that there was some die off during shipping that caused an ammonia spike.

When you’re having unknown problems it’s kind of silly to refuse to test for likely issues. There’s certainly a chance that it’s not ammonia, but you really need to at least test for it.

 

[MONTANTK]

I think this might have a lot to do with it. You really need to test ammonia at a minimum here. While it‘s quite possible that using wet rock will help you avoid a cycle it’s also possible that there was some die off during shipping that caused an ammonia spike.

When you’re having unknown problems it’s kind of silly to refuse to test for likely issues. There’s certainly a chance that it’s not ammonia, but you really need to at least test for it.

So the reason I didn’t test is because the system the rock is tied into is well established. It was purchased from a local store. It’s not that I refuse to test it’s just that I’m quite confident there is no ammonia. For what it’s worth I just tested the water I got with some snails I purchased from the LFS and the salinity read well over 1.030 on my new refractometer so I’m assuming it just wasn’t calibrated or got knocked out of calibration. I recalibrated it based off what my tank water was reading at the store and am going to slowly bump the salinity up over the next day or two.

 

[Fernthereefer]

Your salinity is 1.030? that is HIGH. Aim for 1.025-1.026 at most

Also, be it a young system or an established system, testing is always important.The bacterial ecosystem may be lacking ammonia after being in an established tank and dying off without a source. Just a thought.

 

[iamacat]

So the reason I didn’t test is because the system the rock is tied into is well established. It was purchased from a local store. It’s not that I refuse to test it’s just that I’m quite confident there is no ammonia. For what it’s worth I just tested the water I got with some snails I purchased from the LFS and the salinity read well over 1.030 on my new refractometer so I’m assuming it just wasn’t calibrated or got knocked out of calibration. I recalibrated it based off what my tank water was reading at the store and am going to slowly bump the salinity up over the next day or two.

I’ll bet you have ammonia.

 

[MONTANTK]

Your salinity is 1.030? that is HIGH. Aim for 1.025-1.026 at most

Also, be it a young system or an established system, testing is always important.The bacterial ecosystem may be lacking ammonia after being in an established tank and dying off without a source. Just a thought.

No the salinity is 1.026 from the system I received some inverts from but the new refractometer read over 1.030 so it was probably just out of calibration

 

[MONTANTK]

I’ll bet you have ammonia.

I checked my poly pad to see if there was any indication it was pulling out ammonia and the color is tan rather than the yellow that would suggest ammonia. I tested the LFS water after I posted this thread and given the result I am very confident the issue is my salinity being too low and not high ammonia or nitrites. Had I tested their water and it came back at 1.026 or something close to that I probably would have gone out and got a test kit for ammonia/nitrite.

 

[Brett S]

So the reason I didn’t test is because the system the rock is tied into is well established. It was purchased from a local store. It’s not that I refuse to test it’s just that I’m quite confident there is no ammonia.

You may absolutely be right that there’s no ammonia, but you may also be wrong. It’s what, $20 for a test kit and 5 minutes to do the test? I don’t see any reason not to do the test just to rule it out, if nothing else.

 

[MONTANTK]

You may absolutely be right that there’s no ammonia, but you may also be wrong. It’s what, $20 for a test kit and 5 minutes to do the test? I don’t see any reason not to do the test just to rule it out, if nothing else.

I totally agree but after I posted this thread I got the idea to test the salinity of the tank water the snails at my LFS were in. I bought them with the new refractometer but obviously haven’t put them in the tank yet. The salinity in that tank read off the charts on my new refractometer and I know it’s kept at 1.026. Because of that I’m more convinced the salinity is actually the issue

 

[iamacat]

I totally agree but after I posted this thread I got the idea to test the salinity of the tank water the snails at my LFS were in. I bought them with the new refractometer but obviously haven’t put them in the tank yet. The salinity in that tank read off the charts on my new refractometer and I know it’s kept at 1.026. Because of that I’m more convinced the salinity is actually the issue

This is neglectful and detrimental. Ammonia is toxic to your inhabitants and should be seriously managed and monitored if you are having inhabitants die. Yes your salinity is off and needs to be fixed. With that being a fundamental of your parameters what’s to say you have other issues? You should monitor your parameters for your animals health

 

[Oldreefer44]

I moved all of the live rock from a 15 year old system into a new tank and had significant ammonia so agree with everyone else here. Without thorough testing you are shooting in the dark.

 

[MONTANTK]

This is neglectful and detrimental. Ammonia is toxic to your inhabitants and should be seriously managed and monitored if you are having inhabitants die. Yes your salinity is off and needs to be fixed. With that being a fundamental of your parameters what’s to say you have other issues? You should monitor your parameters for your animals health

Again, I am confident there is no ammonia. My poly pad shows know indication of any ammonia being pulled out. The salinity read 1.016 which would absolutely kill my snails. There is no reason to believe ammonia would be out of control. I’ve set up all my past tanks like this (except my first) and have never had anything more than a little bit of nitrates pop up.

 

[Doctorgori]

I finally pulled the strings on a Hanna for $60, not infallible either, but I use it as primary with the refractometer to verify if somethings goofy
...I’d still get a good ammonia test and maybe also a LR Nitrate, may as well now as you will eventually anyway

 

[iamacat]

Again, I am confident there is no ammonia. My poly pad shows know indication of any ammonia being pulled out. The salinity read 1.016 which would absolutely kill my snails. There is no reason to believe ammonia would be out of control. I’ve set up all my past tanks like this (except my first) and have never had anything more than a little bit of nitrates pop up.

Good luck

 

[MONTANTK]

Good luck

If it comes back that there was high ammonia I will gladly come back and admit my wrongdoing. But to me at this point it just doesn’t seem like I should be worrying about ammonia when my salinity was off significantly. With that being said. I don’t plan on adding any kind of livestock until I see the snails doing well and some form of recovery from my zoas.

 

[MONTANTK]

I finally pulled the strings on a Hanna for $60, not infallible either, but I use it as primary with the refractometer to verify if somethings goofy
...I’d still get a good ammonia test and maybe also a LR Nitrate, may as well now as you will eventually anyway

I was thinking of going digital but ended up going with the traditional refractometer. I do plan on getting nitrate tests this week since I’ll be testing that regularly.

 

[Joeg]

There's a saying that keeping a reef is mostly about maintaining water parameters and less about the animals. I feel there's a lot of truth to that view. You need to test often, especially with a new tank, and make sure the water is ready and suitable for animals. You can make assumptions about the presence of X or Y in the water but without testing you're really just guessing.

If you're set on the idea that there's a salinity problem, I'd agree with @Doctorgori that the Hanna digital checker is great to have on hand.

My suggestion before adding any more animals is to test regularly, including salinity, and log the results to an excel sheet. This gives you immediate actionable data plus as your tank matures you'll start to notice trends if you also make notes about photoperiod, temp, test levels, salinity etc. This route obviously requires some patience but the trade-off is that you have true data and end up with a safe environment for your animals.

BTW, I was born in Buffalo and really miss having the charcoal dogs and loganberry from Ted's.

 

[iamacat]

If it comes back that there was high ammonia I will gladly come back and admit my wrongdoing. But to me at this point it just doesn’t seem like I should be worrying about ammonia when my salinity was off significantly. With that being said. I don’t plan on adding any kind of livestock until I see the snails doing well and some form of recovery from my zoas.

Please come back and tell me I’m wrong. Go get that test kit and prove me wrong. Do it.

 

[Brett S]

If it comes back that there was high ammonia I will gladly come back and admit my wrongdoing. But to me at this point it just doesn’t seem like I should be worrying about ammonia when my salinity was off significantly. With that being said. I don’t plan on adding any kind of livestock until I see the snails doing well and some form of recovery from my zoas.

Obviously the salinity is an issue and needs to be corrected, but I don’t think that just because you identified one problem that it is safe to assume that everything else is fine. It’s pretty common to have ammonia spikes after adding rocks and that may or may not have happened in this case, but we don’t know because you haven’t tested for it.

It’s not like testing for ammonia is expensive or time consuming. You very well may find out that you you have 0 ammonia, but given that it’s so easy it’s worth doing the test just to rule it out. At least in my opinion.

 

[MONTANTK]

There's a saying that keeping a reef is mostly about maintaining water parameters and less about the animals. I feel there's a lot of truth to that view. You need to test often, especially with a new tank, and make sure the water is ready and suitable for animals. You can make assumptions about the presence of X or Y in the water but without testing you're really just guessing.

If you're set on the idea that there's a salinity problem, I'd agree with @Doctorgori that the Hanna digital checker is great to have on hand.

My suggestion before adding any more animals is to test regularly, including salinity, and log the results to an excel sheet. This gives you immediate actionable data plus as your tank matures you'll start to notice trends if you also make notes about photoperiod, temp, test levels, salinity etc. This route obviously requires some patience but the trade-off is that you have true data and end up with a safe environment for your animals.

BTW, I was born in Buffalo and really miss having the charcoal dogs and loganberry from Ted's.

I was actually planning on doing a spreadsheet for that reason. I don’t want to add any more animals until I get this all sorted out. Also not a big fan of Loganberry but you can never go wrong with teds