Full Dry Start

[tmnails]

I'm getting back into the hobby after a six year break (apartments, marrried, daughter on the way), and I see that everything has changed. I'm catching up on lighting, filtration, testing, even the tank tech has changed (rimless is HUGE).

My question comes from a horror i experienced previously. Short version:

I started my last tank with mostly live rock with no major issues. Two years later, fish started dying. All my levels were fine and the fish were fed well. Finally i noticed a fish rise to the surface dead, but with a bloody spot, like a puncture. After researching and reading FOREVER, my buddy finally asked "do you happen to hear clicking from your tank at night"

Yes, actually I do.

I had a baby mantis shrimp hitch hike in my live rock. Two years later, its old enough to start killing fish, and i had to bake all my rock in an oven because there was no other way to capture or kill the demon that had been killing everything else in my tank.

That brings me to the decision I've arrived on today. I REALLY do not want to start with any live rock if at all possible, but I still would like to have a diverse passive live ecosystem. I see some nitrate cycle starting kits available now, which is great, but i wanted to ask... has anyone had great experience starting completely dry sand/rock? What methods did you use?

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I have never started a reef with dead rock no matter what hitchhikers there might be in the Live Rock. It is the best method. There is an thread in the article section on the biodiversity of a live rock started tank versus the dead rock start. You should read it before you make a decision. Dead rock starts take over a year before they seem stable enough to over come the ugly algae stage and mature enough for corals. Lots of failures here on the site of just dead rock starts with bottled bacteria only. Not for the faint of heart or impatient.

I have had lots of success getting mantis shrimp out of a tank. One method is an octopus and another is a wrasse. You can put the rock in a brute or similar tank with a heater and powerhead and then add the wrasse or octopus and let things happen on their own. You might find a local store that will lend you the mantis shrimp assassin of your choice.

Good luck no matter how you start.

 

[Mical]

You can always get some live rock from a fellow reefer. As Lowell mentioned starting w/dry rock is going to take longer to mature but it's do-able.

On my first tank I bought live rock off Ebay and in the first year or so I had all kinds of critters (worms, asteria stars & hydroids) as it matured and a few helpful fish and urchins I rid myself the pests.

 

[Samina]

I am definitely if the thought that the benefit of true live rock is worth the risk in relation to some bad hitchhikers. Give this thread a read when you have sometime. A lot of great info.

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

About this article This article describes an experiment documenting the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium. While I’ve tried to tell the story as briefly as I can, it’s the story of a month-long study of replicated tanks, with analysis of both water chemistry and the microbial...

www.reef2reef.com

That said, if you want to use dry rock, well there is nothing wrong with that. There are many reef tanks on here that started with dry rock and they are gorgeous. The maturity and establishment will take a lot of time though. You can always add biodiversity from various sources, and even seed some live rock rubble in your sump or something help the process so yes it is definitely doable!

 

[lapin]

My current tank started with dry Marco Rock. 2 years in and no problems other than the normal stuff.

 

[tmnails]

I am definitely if the thought that the benefit of true live rock is worth the risk in relation to some bad hitchhikers. Give this thread a read when you have sometime. A lot of great info.

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

About this article This article describes an experiment documenting the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium. While I’ve tried to tell the story as briefly as I can, it’s the story of a month-long study of replicated tanks, with analysis of both water chemistry and the microbial...

www.reef2reef.com

That said, if you want to use dry rock, well there is nothing wrong with that. There are many reef tanks on here that started with dry rock and they are gorgeous. The maturity and establishment will take a lot of time though. You can always add biodiversity from various sources, and even seed some live rock rubble in your sump or something help the process so yes it is definitely doable!

That's a great thread, I've read it over, thanks! I was definitely considering adding live rock to my sump. Do we know if that will help establish bacteria in the display tank while leaving any hitch hikers in the sump? I feel like that is the obvious result, but I can't confirm that as I've never tried it.

 

[Dal-Reef]

I'm getting back into the hobby after a six year break (apartments, marrried, daughter on the way), and I see that everything has changed. I'm catching up on lighting, filtration, testing, even the tank tech has changed (rimless is HUGE).

My question comes from a horror i experienced previously. Short version:

I started my last tank with mostly live rock with no major issues. Two years later, fish started dying. All my levels were fine and the fish were fed well. Finally i noticed a fish rise to the surface dead, but with a bloody spot, like a puncture. After researching and reading FOREVER, my buddy finally asked "do you happen to hear clicking from your tank at night"

Yes, actually I do.

I had a baby mantis shrimp hitch hike in my live rock. Two years later, its old enough to start killing fish, and i had to bake all my rock in an oven because there was no other way to capture or kill the demon that had been killing everything else in my tank.

That brings me to the decision I've arrived on today. I REALLY do not want to start with any live rock if at all possible, but I still would like to have a diverse passive live ecosystem. I see some nitrate cycle starting kits available now, which is great, but i wanted to ask... has anyone had great experience starting completely dry sand/rock? What methods did you use?

I also just got back into his love of our hobby. I was away for 15 years and had always used Live rock and to be honest I miss using that stuff. The mirco fauna is so much better and I think helps get the tank much more balanced. This go around I used my old dry live lock I had stored all these years. It has its up and downs. Go check out my build thread there is a link under my signature.

 

[lapin]

Whats in the sump can find a way to the tank thru the water if thats what you are asking. Bigger things will get chopped up by the pump. Smaller things have a better chance of making it thru.

 

[Samina]

Little shrimps and crabs can possibly get into display via the return. I guess you could take extra precaution and block return sections with eggcrate and have a filter nozzle on the intake of the return pump or bulkhead on the sump going to the return pump to minimize the risk.
And yes, you’ll definitely be able to seed and get that biodiverse microfauna into the display rock from the sump. Most of the bacteria is adhered to surfaces but some are free floating.

You can also seed by adding different things. Look into Garf Grunge, IPSF Live sand activator and wonder mud, Walt Smith Fiji mud, etc. You can add little critters too from these sources. Also, Sachs Aquaculture store, Algae Barn, Reed Mariculture, ReefBrite Reef Bugs, etc. have a good selection of pods and other critters.

 

[tmnails]

You can also seed by adding different things. Look into Garf Grunge, IPSF Live sand activator and wonder mud, Walt Smith Fiji mud, etc. You can add little critters too from these sources. Also, Sachs Aquaculture store, Algae Barn, Reed Mariculture, ReefBrite Reef Bugs, etc. have a good selection of pods and other critters.

This is a big help! I can be patient for the startup phase, but I want the same long term result. I've been looking to see if it's possible to add the little critters and diversity, and the options you mentioned look like a good start for sure, thanks!

 

[Samina]

Great! To be honest, I have bought from each of those I listed and have been happy with my purchases.