Furan 2

Reef Pro · Mar 5, 2020

@Humblefish @HotRocks @4FordFamily
When dosing Furan 2 along with Kanaplex and metroplex is it necessary to do the 25 percent water change as recommended by api I was under the impression once nitrofurazone levels are reached in the water they are left there until they want to be pulled out with carbon. @Humblefish i know you recommend 500 mg of nitrofurazone per per 20-40 gallons... however the Furan 2 each packet contains 85 mg per 10 gallons.... this doesn’t jive up with your recommendations..... is the furan 2 a less potent version of nitrofurazone or do they act and do the same thing as straight nitrofurazone power at 500 mg/ 20-40 gallons.... any thoughts are very appreciated!! Thanks in advance !

Humblefish · Mar 5, 2020

Furan-2 is actually a formulation of both Nitrofurazone and Doxycycline: https://www.apifishcare.com/pdfs/products-us/furan-2/api-furan-2-safety-data-sheet.pdf

(They keep changing the active ingredients, dosages, etc.)

The dosage range for both Nitrofurazone & Doxycycline is 125 - 250 mg per 10 gallons. So yes, API is skimping it. I would compensate by double dosing, and only doing a 25% WC every 4 days.

I've stopped using aquarium medications entirely due to lack of quality control. The source below is more expensive, but has always tested 94-96% pure for me. And you get to control the dosages.

Nitrofurazone

Doxycycline

But if you're gonna invest in a good wide spectrum antibiotic for fish, I would use Ciprofloxacin or Baytril (a derivative): https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/items/view/587/enrofloxacin

Those work much faster than old school ABX.

Reef Pro · Mar 5, 2020

@Humblefish would you recommend the ciprofloxacin or baytril instead of the nitrofurazone or in addition? Or would these ABX replace the Kanaplex and metroplex. Thanks again!

Reef Pro · Mar 5, 2020

@Humblefish also.... I originally dosed with cupermine before reading your wonder articles

I bought copper power wanting to switch over however I can’t seem to remove all the cupermine from the water.... My Hanna checker is reading from .04-.06 ppm and I have BRS activated carbon running in an reactor... any thoughts or is it safe at this point to start adding the copper power? Thanks again!

4FordFamily · Mar 5, 2020

Humblefish said:
Furan-2 is actually a formulation of both Nitrofurazone and Doxycycline: https://www.apifishcare.com/pdfs/products-us/furan-2/api-furan-2-safety-data-sheet.pdf

(They keep changing the active ingredients, dosages, etc.)

The dosage range for both Nitrofurazone & Doxycycline is 125 - 250 mg per 10 gallons. So yes, API is skimping it. I would compensate by double dosing, and only doing a 25% WC every 4 days.

I've stopped using aquarium medications entirely due to lack of quality control. The source below is more expensive, but has always tested 94-96% pure for me. And you get to control the dosages.

Nitrofurazone

Doxycycline

But if you're gonna invest in a good wide spectrum antibiotic for fish, I would use Ciprofloxacin or Baytril (a derivative): https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/items/view/587/enrofloxacin

Those work much faster than old school ABX.

I second his expertise here!

Humblefish · Mar 5, 2020

reefflow said:
@Humblefish would you recommend the ciprofloxacin or baytril instead of the nitrofurazone or in addition? Or would these ABX replace the Kanaplex and metroplex. Thanks again!

Cipro/Baytril are effective against a broader range of bacteria, so I consider them to be replacements. The downside is both will also destroy nitrifying bacteria so they are best administered in a bath or a QT with no working biofilter. The upside is they both typically produce noticeable results in days, not weeks.

Ciprofloxacin is best administered via 1-2 hour bath treatment. Dosage is high: 250mg per gal. Repeat every 24 hours for up to 7 days. Methylene Blue can be added to increase efficacy.

Baytril/Enrofloxacin can be dosed directly into a QT or used as a 5 hour bath treatment. Dosage range is 2.5 – 5 mg/L daily for 7 days. The tricky thing about Enrofloxacin is the 2.5 – 5 mg/L dosage range is actually safe for QT use, but the nitrifying bacteria will also take a hit. So, the primary reason to administer the medication as a 5 hr bath is to spare your biofilter.

reefflow said:
@Humblefish also.... I originally dosed with cupermine before reading your wonder articles I bought copper power wanting to switch over however I can’t seem to remove all the cupermine from the water.... My Hanna checker is reading from .04-.06 ppm and I have BRS activated carbon running in an reactor... any thoughts or is it safe at this point to start adding the copper power? Thanks again!

I would run Cuprisorb or a poly filter for 24 hours, remove and then dose Copper Power.

Reef Pro · Mar 6, 2020

Ok great! Understood! Thanks again for your help really do appreciate it! @Humblefish in your experience does nitrofurazone have any impact on the biological filtration.... I see some people say yes some people say no.... any thoughts? Thanks again!

PSU4ME · Mar 6, 2020

Will Baytril/Enrofloxacin fight Uronema? $130 isn’t terrible if it’s a super ABX and works fast. Fish are not cheap!

Reef Pro · Mar 6, 2020

@Humblefish have you seen an adverse reactions when using nitrofurazone with fairy wrasses ? Some people say yes and some people say no they do just fine.... any thoughts? Thanks again!

Humblefish · Mar 6, 2020

reefflow said:
Ok great! Understood! Thanks again for your help really do appreciate it! @Humblefish in your experience does nitrofurazone have any impact on the biological filtration.... I see some people say yes some people say no.... any thoughts? Thanks again!

All ABX have some negative impact on nitrifying bacteria; but a healthy biofilter should be able to bounce back from kanamycin, nitrofurazone, sulfa drugs, etc. I've never seen an ammonia spike in my cycled QTs when using those.

PSU4ME said:
Will Baytril/Enrofloxacin fight Uronema? $130 isn’t terrible if it’s a super ABX and works fast. Fish are not cheap!

No antibiotics will work on Uronema. Metro, Chloroquine and 5 min FW dips have some efficacy. H2O2 works @ 250 ppm for 60 minutes but no fish can survive that.

So, what I've started doing with fish prone to uronema (e.g. chromis) is give them a 30-45 minute bath using formalin upon receiving them.

Buy this:

And then use Option #2 described below:

When using 37% formaldehyde dosages are as follows for marine environments above 70°F (otherwise follow directions on the product’s label):

1) In-tank treatment: 1 milliliter (ml) per 10 gallons, or 2 drops per gallon daily in a bare aquarium.

2) 30-60 minute bath treatment: 1 ml per gallon, or 20 drops per gallon. Aerate vigorously and treat at this concentration for approximately 45 minutes. You can actually treat for a maximum of 60 minutes if the fish seems to be handling the bath fine, but cut it short (30 minutes) if breathing becomes too heavy.

reefflow said:
@Humblefish have you seen an adverse reactions when using nitrofurazone with fairy wrasses ? Some people say yes and some people say no they do just fine.... any thoughts? Thanks again!

IME; fairy/flasher wrasses are sensitive to most medications. The best you can do is take care never to overdose when treating them. And raise copper more slowly (5-7 days) with wrasses.

Reef Pro · Mar 6, 2020

Humblefish said:
All ABX have some negative impact on nitrifying bacteria; but a healthy biofilter should be able to bounce back from kanamycin, nitrofurazone, sulfa drugs, etc. I've never seen an ammonia spike in my cycled QTs when using those.

No antibiotics will work on Uronema. Metro, Chloroquine and 5 min FW dips have some efficacy. H2O2 works @ 250 ppm for 60 minutes but no fish can survive that. So, what I've started doing with fish prone to uronema (e.g. chromis) is give them a 30-45 minute bath using formalin upon receiving them.

Buy this:

And then use Option #2 described below:

When using 37% formaldehyde dosages are as follows for marine environments above 70°F (otherwise follow directions on the product’s label):

1) In-tank treatment: 1 milliliter (ml) per 10 gallons, or 2 drops per gallon daily in a bare aquarium.

2) 30-60 minute bath treatment: 1 ml per gallon, or 20 drops per gallon. Aerate vigorously and treat at this concentration for approximately 45 minutes. You can actually treat for a maximum of 60 minutes if the fish seems to be handling the bath fine, but cut it short (30 minutes) if breathing becomes too heavy.

IME; fairy/flasher wrasses are sensitive to most medications. The best you can do is take care never to overdose when treating them. And raise copper more slowly (5-7 days) with wrasses.

@Humblefish Would it beneficial to add a bacteria in a bottle product like bio Spira after the initial dose of nitrofurazone?....

Thing is my QT system has been up for 3 months now.... did the cycle in the beginning with bio Spira and liquid ammonia at 2 ppm.... Bio Spira brought it down and then the tank went a little while with only a few fish.... Currently have a thin coating of sand on the bottom and some carib sea life rock for biological, recently added bioballs to the sump.... I recently added a 90 gallon tank on that to house larger fish.... thinking the tank was cycled I added a few large fish and did another bottle of bio Spira however it looks like I did still get a little ammonia spike at .25 ppm and nitrite spike at .25 with API.... My Seachem ammonia badge says its in the safe range though..... I would like to add the nitrofurazone however I am a bit concerned with the biological... I have been doing water changes using the water from by display which is cycled thinking some of the bacteria in the water will help... Any thoughts are really appreciated!

Humblefish · Mar 7, 2020

@reefflow It would be better to dose Biospira before dosing nitrofurazone. Antibiotics in the water are more likely to kill free floating bacteria than bacteria which is entrenched in bio media. (It takes a few days for this to happen after dosing nitrifying bacteria.)

Are you testing ammonia + nitrite while medications (especially copper) are in the water? Those will often cause a false positive unless you are using a Seachem ammonia alert badge.

Reef Pro · Mar 7, 2020

Humblefish said:
@reefflow It would be better to dose Biospira before dosing nitrofurazone. Antibiotics in the water are more likely to kill free floating bacteria than bacteria which is entrenched in bio media. (It takes a few days for this to happen after dosing nitrifying bacteria.)

Are you testing ammonia + nitrite while medications (especially copper) are in the water? Those will often cause a false positive unless you are using a Seachem ammonia alert badge.

@Humblefish theres a just a trace amount of copper in the water now.... my Hanna checker is reading .04-.06 ppm copper...
I’ve been trying to strip all the cupermine out and go with copper power.... however seems like it’s impossible to get to 0 ppm copper as I checked my remixed seawater that I use for water changes (Fritz blue box) and that was testing at .26 ppm copper.... any thoughts??

Humblefish · Mar 8, 2020

reefflow said:
@Humblefish theres a just a trace amount of copper in the water now.... my Hanna checker is reading .04-.06 ppm copper...
I’ve been trying to strip all the cupermine out and go with copper power.... however seems like it’s impossible to get to 0 ppm copper as I checked my remixed seawater that I use for water changes (Fritz blue box) and that was testing at .26 ppm copper.... any thoughts??

Your SW vat is reading 0.26 ppm??!

Any chance a pump impeller is corroding in there or something metal is making contact with the water?

Reeftank2008 · Jun 21, 2021

@Humblefish

I'm treating my feminous wrasse with furan 2 but I'm confused with it's treatment dosage.
My tank is 22.5 litres just over 5 gallon.

So far i have done the following
Day 1 - 1/2 packet dose
Day 2 - 1/2 packet dose
Day 3 - 25% water change and 1/2 packet dose
Day 4 - 1/2 packet dose

Is that the full course of treatment or do I need to continue for another 4 days? This would be 4 packets of furan 2 in total due to tank size.

Thanks