GARFs grunge
- Thread starter Larry Cox
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Brandon Rutherford
Active Member
Are you trying to seed pods? I really like Algae Barn products. They have cheap shipping and the 'freshness' of their culture makes sure that what you get reproduces efficiently.
Pretty sure it near legendary. It pretty old school stuff. Designed along the lines of Paul B's reef. Read Garfs Bulletproof reef page.
IMO If your seeding a shallow I wouldnt. I think shallow should be vac'ed. For a fuge HECK ya and share some with the shallow in the DT. For a dsb heck yea for the next to top layer so you keep the bac and bugs. Then cap it with something pretty.
If your a natural style its the way I would go. . I am gonna go that old school way sometime in the hopefully near future. I also use FIJI Mud for seed. Crazy corraline colors too but no bugs.
IMO If your seeding a shallow I wouldnt. I think shallow should be vac'ed. For a fuge HECK ya and share some with the shallow in the DT. For a dsb heck yea for the next to top layer so you keep the bac and bugs. Then cap it with something pretty.
If your a natural style its the way I would go. . I am gonna go that old school way sometime in the hopefully near future. I also use FIJI Mud for seed. Crazy corraline colors too but no bugs.
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Larry Cox
New Member
I have read GARFs bulletproof reef, just wish I could have seen it before I setup my system. So with a 1.5 - 2" sb it would be pointless, would not some of it get into my rock work? As of now there is very little life if any. What would you suggest to use to try and get life started in the tank? And thanks for the reply.
It'll totally Spread yea And a great Idea. Im assuming no Fuge?
Heres a thought. Plan for the future and figure out the short term consequences.
If you dropped all the grunge in the tank youll get a bunch of mud too. You could dump it in and deal with the mud for a month or 2. The life will disperse the bacteria will to its just the solids youll eventually have to deal with.
for the long term benefit I think works. In the short term it will just be ugly. some algae blooms youll have ride out etc.
Have you considered a DSB? A lot of folks like the worms and such in a shallow sand bed, but I think a shallow collects more gunk than it can process even with worms and should be vacuumed so why have worms.
Ill recommend reading Ron Shimek on the benefits of a DSB.
My DSB is not a true DSB the base layers is oolloitc but the higher layers are sugar sand. SO far its worked out pretty well for me. Feeding time a million arms come out of the sand and eat everything. But the bristle worms have no Mud to hide in so they stay at the top and in the rocks. So you could Like I did slowly add layers of live sand and put the grunge in a layer.
BTW with grunge..... Must love bugs and understand bug husbandry, blooms etc.
And take pics so we can see.
Heres a thought. Plan for the future and figure out the short term consequences.
If you dropped all the grunge in the tank youll get a bunch of mud too. You could dump it in and deal with the mud for a month or 2. The life will disperse the bacteria will to its just the solids youll eventually have to deal with.
for the long term benefit I think works. In the short term it will just be ugly. some algae blooms youll have ride out etc.
Have you considered a DSB? A lot of folks like the worms and such in a shallow sand bed, but I think a shallow collects more gunk than it can process even with worms and should be vacuumed so why have worms.
Ill recommend reading Ron Shimek on the benefits of a DSB.
My DSB is not a true DSB the base layers is oolloitc but the higher layers are sugar sand. SO far its worked out pretty well for me. Feeding time a million arms come out of the sand and eat everything. But the bristle worms have no Mud to hide in so they stay at the top and in the rocks. So you could Like I did slowly add layers of live sand and put the grunge in a layer.
BTW with grunge..... Must love bugs and understand bug husbandry, blooms etc.
And take pics so we can see.
FWIW I went DSB cuz Im busy and lazy. I now only poke the bed with a stick occasionally and make sure theres no pockets of gunk in nooks and cranny in rocks. The worms and bugs do the hard work for me the bacteria do the rest. I started to feel bad about it but the bugs and Ron seemed to think it was a good Idea.
Never heard that. Im basing all this on my research and experience. With Shimek and Randy F in particular. I dont see why you cant balance a large tank the same way you balance a small one as far as nutrient reduction. after all that's what the sand is in there for. To house bacteria.
The non vac shallow bed as far as I can tell is a new school invention and makes no sense to me after reading Randy and Rons work as well as Garf's work or Paul B.
Ps On that JBJ upgrade the skimmer or consider a canister and keep the chambers as clean as you can. My experience any way.
The last shallow was in a jbj w black sand. disaster in slow motion. Had to add a "2 of white and added fiji and prime, it cleared up but I changed tanks to to a 30g cube. It has a 2" faux dsb as well. In 40 days its doing well. Im still getting bugs from the DT.
ermartin
Active Member
Years ago i added it to my refugium when setting up new . Its pretty much a scoop of stuff from there DSB refugium. Not something I would recommend to add to an established tank. your going to get pretty much whatever is in the scoop. I did see some little stars and some pod's. I have heard others complain it was just a stinky bag of sand. I guess it helped but have never thought to use it in any tank going forward. I no longer like surprises and choose to know exactly what im putting in my tank... still lots of hitchhikers that surprise me. I only do SSB's now and dont do any full refugium like in the past now its just a ball of cheato and a few rocks.
Funny, cuz thats what it is. Mixed with bugs.
Its really a philosophical decision.
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Larry Cox
New Member
So after reading Dr. Ron Shimek and a couple others article, I have come to the conclusion that a dsb is out. With a dsb from what I understand is it shouldn't be disturbed and I like gobies. They are one of my favorite fish, so I think I will just get a good skimmer, vacuum the sand and do a water change once a week. But I sure have learned a lot about sand beds. And thanks for all the help.
not actually true. It needs to be disturbed to allow for waterflow. thus the worms importance and my stick I use to poke holes in it.. and my talbot
.But maybe next build eh?
McMullen
Valuable Member
I bought grunge a couple times. It is an ugly stinky bag of all sorts of beautiful and beneficial life, IMO. I added to my fuge. If adding to a display I would simply hide the ugly pile in the back behind rock work, or spread out the rock chunks.
rossco
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I have used it a few times and will use it again.
In my mind , I think over time the diversity of micro organisms in an aquarium may become less diverse due to dominance of the stronger organisms. Keep in mind, this is a hypothesis only and not supported by any published info that I know of - but I have never looked.
I have used Garf Grunge in my established reef to correct algae/dinoflagellate issues that popped up for no reason. Lately, I just take the sponge or filter sock from my other tanks and squeeze the detritus out of them in the other systems if things are looking off. So far it has always worked.
In my mind , I think over time the diversity of micro organisms in an aquarium may become less diverse due to dominance of the stronger organisms. Keep in mind, this is a hypothesis only and not supported by any published info that I know of - but I have never looked.
I have used Garf Grunge in my established reef to correct algae/dinoflagellate issues that popped up for no reason. Lately, I just take the sponge or filter sock from my other tanks and squeeze the detritus out of them in the other systems if things are looking off. So far it has always worked.
