Garlic supplement?
- Thread starter Hemlawk
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AllSignsPointToFish
"No Longer The Guy Without FaceBook"
Yes, I'd say that's the consensus...kind of like garlic salt. It may not be beneficial, but the fish sure seem to love it!
jaws789832
Active Member
This is off the LRS foods website. Not sure where they got this information but they do have great food and I do trust that it is probably accurate:
"You can rest assured that LRS food blends contain NO GARLIC since recent studies indicate marine fish cannot metabolize this terrestrial substance and it may in fact be harmful to fish if ingested long term."
"You can rest assured that LRS food blends contain NO GARLIC since recent studies indicate marine fish cannot metabolize this terrestrial substance and it may in fact be harmful to fish if ingested long term."
AllSignsPointToFish
"No Longer The Guy Without FaceBook"
I would think that, after 15 to 20 years of use, any potential harmful nature posed by garlic in marine systems would be obvious by now. I've never observed any negative effects in my tanks, and, if anything, it seems to have a positive impact.
I have my actual empirical observations, but that LFS statement has no cited works to back the claim. Just sayin'
Now, don't get me wrong...LFS has great foods, I'm sure, but they may have gone overboard a bit with that statement.
I have my actual empirical observations, but that LFS statement has no cited works to back the claim. Just sayin'
Now, don't get me wrong...LFS has great foods, I'm sure, but they may have gone overboard a bit with that statement.
laga77
Active Member
Simply put, marine fish eat algae, not plants. The lipids in terrestrial plants can cause damage to liver and heart over time. Just like it takes years for cigarettes to kill you. And since you provided no cited works for your claim, you just did what you criticized LRS for. Just saying`I would think that, after 15 to 20 years of use, any potential harmful nature posed by garlic in marine systems would be obvious by now. I've never observed any negative effects in my tanks, and, if anything, it seems to have a positive impact.
I have my actual empirical observations, but that LFS statement has no cited works to back the claim. Just sayin'
AllSignsPointToFish
"No Longer The Guy Without FaceBook"
That's not exactly true. I cited personal empirical observations through years of reefkeeping, not just a blanket statement.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Where are the studies that say supplementing with garlic causes damage?
laga77
Active Member
I have to admit I was wrong about garlic. I just did a google search and these are the results from just the first page of results. Garlic will cure inflammation, the common cold, reverse and prevent cancer, Alzheimers and dementia, cold sores, athletes foot, the heartbreak of psoriasis, reverse hair loss, lower cholesterol and reverse heat disease, cure diabetes, increase athletic and sexual performance, give great hair and skin, prevents food poisoning, is a great insect repellant, and fixes cracks in glass. In marine fish, it will cure bacterial, fungal, viral, and parasitic, infections. Along with killing ich, velvet, flukes, all while increasing redox potential. It is almost too good to be true, but since I read it on an internet site, it must be true. Just last week, I was talking to my neighbor, and he said his brother-in-law saw a show on the Discovery channel that said the reason the dinosaurs died out was not from an asteroid, but because they did not eat garlic. I swear its true. The great thing is that it does all this with the active ingredient allicin, having a bacterial half life of 6 days and a chemical half life of 11 days.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Huh?
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AllSignsPointToFish
"No Longer The Guy Without FaceBook"
Sarcasm, Renee, sarcasm. 
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Yes, the presence of sarcasm I get, it's the responding with sarcasm I don't get.
laga77
Active Member
Everything I listed are actual claims of actual products containing garlic. What you see in that list is basically the definition of snake oil. When someone treats a disease like ich or velvet or even flukes with snake oil because of marketing or word of mouth or because of what someone posted on a forum, instead of a proven treatment, then damage occurs.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
I meant specifically the below quote. That's pretty specific in saying plant oils (in this case garlic) causes damage to the heart and liver. If that's not what you meant to say by that statement, you should perhaps think about rewording it.
I don't use or even recommend garlic, so I'm not trying to sway anyone one way or the other. I guess you can say I'm part of the "anti garlic" clan in that regard. I've just never run across information that says it causes liver or heart damage when it's used as a supplement and I'm constantly reading it on the forums.
I don't use or even recommend garlic, so I'm not trying to sway anyone one way or the other. I guess you can say I'm part of the "anti garlic" clan in that regard. I've just never run across information that says it causes liver or heart damage when it's used as a supplement and I'm constantly reading it on the forums.
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laga77
Active Member
This was posted on another forum. I`m sure you can find it with a simple search.
"I talked with the owner of Ocean Nutrition & San Francisco Bay Brand and he told me pretty much the same: too much garlic can actually kill fish.
All land plants or meats are of questionable nutritional value to fish, especially saltwater fish. It is something their digestive system never evolved to deal with."
So you have Ocean Nutrition and LRS both saying garlic and terrestrial plants can be bad. If you want to supplement, how much is too much?
"I talked with the owner of Ocean Nutrition & San Francisco Bay Brand and he told me pretty much the same: too much garlic can actually kill fish.
All land plants or meats are of questionable nutritional value to fish, especially saltwater fish. It is something their digestive system never evolved to deal with."
So you have Ocean Nutrition and LRS both saying garlic and terrestrial plants can be bad. If you want to supplement, how much is too much?
Lionfish Lair
Renee
One time Hikari told me that they sell freshwater fish in their feeds because marine fish can digest freshwater fish better than they can saltwater fish, so it's better for them. Of course, that's incorrect and is actually kind of ridiculous, but it's an example of how you can't take someone's word as proven research.... no matter who they are or what you think they should know. Sure you can listen to your guru's hypothesis, but you can't then turn around and use that as proof. Their information needs to be supported, like anyone else. You are saying these people are saying it's bad, so where is the data to support this? I've been looking for it. I would like to find it, yet I have not. I see studies on some of the benefits, but they don't seem to be effective enough or easy enough to deliver. The only articles I've read on the forums about garlic haven't actually supported the claims made. I'll keep chasing behind people when they say they have research data that support their claims because I'm HOPING they do! I want to read it. If it's out there, I want to see it! Inquiring minds want to know!! All I need is journal articles names, as I have access to endless data. I don't need the actual write ups, just the title and journal name and I can find it from there.
There's a big difference in supplementation and replacement and you can't unintentionally cross that line. It's actually rather hard to even get a therapeutic supplemental dose worth anything into the fish, so there's no chance of you giving too much unless that's what you are intending to do.
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Lionfish Lair
Renee
I don't believe it does anything useful enough to do good. There are some studies that show a positive correlation to some benefits, but not enough to utilize it. I am NOT a garlic supporter. I'm just always reading that it's bad, specifically where the liver is concerned, and I haven't found that supporting data. Am I saying that clearly? For some reason, I feel like I'm talking in circles and I apologize if it sounds confusing.
I do not use garlic, but I haven't found anything to support it will harm your fish in supplemental doses. I would LOVE a few journal names to support this.
I do have some articles that support the benefits, but again I don't think they are very useful to us in the hobby. If anyone would like for me to reference some of these, I can get them.
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