Gen 5 design flaws and reliability concerns

[Digitalfirex]

Maybe irrelevant to this thread but just in case anyone might have the same issue...

My xr15 Gen 5 blue updated to the latest firmware. After it did, fan runs 100% non stop. It was working perfect before the update. Anyone experienced this? If so... what's the fix?

 

[GlassMunky]

The issue in the picture is probably the second most common failure in radions behind the UV leds burn out.
I have seen a lot of it in G4s and now starting to see more and more in the G5/G6s that are coming in. And it's an obvious one too: the green stuff on the LED cluster is oxidized copper leaching from the copper traces behind the mask. Once enough of it comes out, the trace is practically gone and the light will also not work.

As for the reason, in nearly all cases I found salt creep around the screw holes. Salt slowly seeps under the lens, stays between the lens and the cluster and slowly eats away at the protective mask, which is not always perfectly laid or gets damaged during assembly. It only needs a small hole on the side of the trace to get in and then take out the copper.

I can say a lot of good things about the radion main board quality and design. Especially comparing with Kessils. But their UV leds and the protective mask on the cluster has been a long standing issue.

Ecotech treats this as a water damage problem, which is not covered by warranty.

Very few companies in this hobby actually acknowledge any large scale issues with their products. Apex EB832 and Kessil A360X are the two prime examples. It'd take a class action to make them pay even then the resolution would be that they won't acknowledge any wrongdoing.

I discuss these issues here:

Starting a class action suit may not be a bad idea. Even if they don’t admit something is their fault it would show them that we as consumers DO care and ARE paying attention to their actions. Maybe it would make them think twice about how they conduct business……







….probably not tho.

 

[rtparty]

Only attorneys win in class action suits lol

 

[c4haskett]

I've had 2 Gen 5's for about 3 years. I haven't had any issues other than the horrible app, but from day 1 I've never liked the color of the spectrum. Once it's time to upgrade I'm going a different route. I think there are much better options for a much more friendly price that produce the same coloration and growth as the radions. I feel that way about most ecotech stuff. I paid for the name and I'm not going to do that anymore.

 

[Haggisman14]

I picked up a used XR15 Gen 4 used b/c I had read about people having issues with Gen 5+ (between lower par, and reliability issues).

Knock on wood my Gen 4 is trucking like a pro!

 

[SamsReef]

Bugger, I have just bought 4 XR30 gen 5 and they were discounted as the new model is out. Having said that, its still aroung AUD$4000. I would be hoping they last for more than 2-3 years for that $$$ outlay.

Good luck. I purchased 3 of them in 2020 from premiumaquatics. 2 are dead now.

Sam

 

[SamsReef]

Only attorneys win in class action suits lol

Makes me wish I was a lawyer

 

[NATE1979]

Since this is about xr15, I have a g6 xr15 blue on a 45 gallon reef tank with only soft and lps corals and run at 65% total intensity is this ok for these type corals?

 

[gws3]

I've had 4 Radion G5s fail. All were under 2 years of use, some were under 1 year of use. I have close to 30 of them running over tanks, but still a considerable failure rate. They all failed due to "open circuit", which I believe is when the controller detects a failed (open circuit) LED.

Ecotech says they inspected them all to determine root cause and would tell me what the cause was, but never did. When the fourth one failed I decided to open it up to take a look inside. What I discovered was the LED board was not properly compressed against the heat sink, and as a result the thermal paste was not making contact in certain areas. If you look at the pics below you can see where the thermal paste was applied by a machine in a rectangular shape, but was never compressed against the heat sink which would cause it to spread out into a circular shape. Heat is typically the number one killer of LEDs, so to me this is a clear manufacturing/quality issue.

I brought this up to Ecotech and they told me the thermal paste issue should not cause any issues. In response to this I sent them a link to their own video where they note how important the thermal paste is for heat transfer:


They maintained that my "open circuit" issue was not caused by this. I have a hard time believing what they told me, being an engineer and having a decent understanding of thermodynamics.

With that said, they have replaced every failed light with a new one at their expense, so I don't have any qualms other than them potentially not admitting to a manufacturing/quality issue with the thermal paste.

If I have another light fail that has this issue, and they try to charge me to repair or replace it, then I will fight this issue as I do believe there is an underlying issue here.

This seems different than the failure mode you experienced though.

 

[SamsReef]

I've had 4 Radion G5s fail. All were under 2 years of use, some were under 1 year of use. I have close to 30 of them running over tanks, but still a considerable failure rate. They all failed due to "open circuit", which I believe is when the controller detects a failed (open circuit) LED.

Ecotech says they inspected them all to determine root cause and would tell me what the cause was, but never did. When the fourth one failed I decided to open it up to take a look inside. What I discovered was the LED board was not properly compressed against the heat sink, and as a result the thermal paste was not making contact in certain areas. If you look at the pics below you can see where the thermal paste was applied by a machine in a rectangular shape, but was never compressed against the heat sink which would cause it to spread out into a circular shape. Heat is typically the number one killer of LEDs, so to me this is a clear manufacturing/quality issue.

I brought this up to Ecotech and they told me the thermal paste issue should not cause any issues. In response to this I sent them a link to their own video where they note how important the thermal paste is for heat transfer:


They maintained that my "open circuit" issue was not caused by this. I have a hard time believing what they told me, being an engineer and having a decent understanding of thermodynamics.

With that said, they have replaced every failed light with a new one at their expense, so I don't have any qualms other than them potentially not admitting to a manufacturing/quality issue with the thermal paste.

If I have another light fail that has this issue, and they try to charge me to repair or replace it, then I will fight this issue as I do believe there is an underlying issue here.

This seems different than the failure mode you experienced though.

Thank you for a detailed history my friend. They certainly did not offer any free fix or a reasonable cost. For now I am sending the fixture to @_AV.

Sam

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

I've had 4 Radion G5s fail. All were under 2 years of use, some were under 1 year of use. I have close to 30 of them running over tanks, but still a considerable failure rate. They all failed due to "open circuit", which I believe is when the controller detects a failed (open circuit) LED.

Ecotech says they inspected them all to determine root cause and would tell me what the cause was, but never did. When the fourth one failed I decided to open it up to take a look inside. What I discovered was the LED board was not properly compressed against the heat sink, and as a result the thermal paste was not making contact in certain areas. If you look at the pics below you can see where the thermal paste was applied by a machine in a rectangular shape, but was never compressed against the heat sink which would cause it to spread out into a circular shape. Heat is typically the number one killer of LEDs, so to me this is a clear manufacturing/quality issue.

I brought this up to Ecotech and they told me the thermal paste issue should not cause any issues. In response to this I sent them a link to their own video where they note how important the thermal paste is for heat transfer:


They maintained that my "open circuit" issue was not caused by this. I have a hard time believing what they told me, being an engineer and having a decent understanding of thermodynamics.

With that said, they have replaced every failed light with a new one at their expense, so I don't have any qualms other than them potentially not admitting to a manufacturing/quality issue with the thermal paste.

If I have another light fail that has this issue, and they try to charge me to repair or replace it, then I will fight this issue as I do believe there is an underlying issue here.

This seems different than the failure mode you experienced though.

Wow, kudos to you for taking matters into your own hands and conducting an investigation! Thanks for the insight. I have 4 g6 xr15s, and 2 g6 xr30s. No issues so far, cept the app which actually has given me less issues after updates.

Also just got 2 60” AI glow bars, haven’t had em long enough to assess performance!

 

[CoralFragZ]

Usually if a SMD fails it fails closed keeping the remaining string up. Sometimes else must be happening like it is becoming unseated from substandard soilder flow taking out the string. this can usually be corrected by heating ithe pcb back up to reflow. next one that fails, isolate the smd opening the circuit and test with 1.5 volts to see if it lights .

 

[gws3]

Found another failed G5 Radion today. Reporting "open circuit". This is the FIFTH one for me. Power cycling gets the light working again for a few minutes before it shuts off and goes back into "open circuit" mode.

This time I looked carefully at the LEDs after power cycling. Looks like the UV channel is flickering and the culprit.

@_AV could you please tell me if this is the common UV failure mode that you come across commonly?

 

[_AV]

Sure. UV LEDs have been a major problem for radions since G1.
G5 is not an exception.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

Omg. They really need to step up their games on quality control or at least take care of their customers when warranty is expired if that falls in the area where quality control was not there.

 

[CoralFragZ]

Found another failed G5 Radion today. Reporting "open circuit". This is the FIFTH one for me. Power cycling gets the light working again for a few minutes before it shuts off and goes back into "open circuit" mode.

This time I looked carefully at the LEDs after power cycling. Looks like the UV channel is flickering and the culprit.

@_AV could you please tell me if this is the common UV failure mode that you come across commonly?

If you have isolated them down to the UV or violet UV's, you can actually fix them yourself. Use a Multimeter to test the LEDS and see which have failed. Since SMDS should Fail closed it sounds like they are getting too hot and becoming unsoldered or unseated. You may be able to simple heat up the pcb and just adjust the affected SMD's back into place. I have done this several times.
If you are certain the smds are bad,
You can purchase a solder heat table and replace the defective SMD's. Get a magnifying glass and a nice set of tweezers. The SMD will have a Dot. Procedure is simple, remove the pcb and clean the thermal grease off it, heat up the pcb to 350 and simply lift up the SMD and replace with the new. Make sure you have the dot in the correct orientation. This is also a great way to swap colors if you do not like the Cyans. Also, I was too cheap to buy a solder heat table so I simply used a pancake griddle. This all sounds intimating but considering the fact that you have a large farm and will constantly be dealing with these types of lights and issues, it is a good Idea to get the skills to repair them.

 

[gws3]

If you have isolated them down to the UV or violet UV's, you can actually fix them yourself. Use a Multimeter to test the LEDS and see which have failed. Since SMDS should Fail closed it sounds like they are getting too hot and becoming unsoldered or unseated. You may be able to simple heat up the pcb and just adjust the affected SMD's back into place. I have done this several times.
If you are certain the smds are bad,
You can purchase a solder heat table and replace the defective SMD's. Get a magnifying glass and a nice set of tweezers. The SMD will have a Dot. Procedure is simple, remove the pcb and clean the thermal grease off it, heat up the pcb to 350 and simply lift up the SMD and replace with the new. Make sure you have the dot in the correct orientation. This is also a great way to swap colors if you do not like the Cyans. Also, I was too cheap to buy a solder heat table so I simply used a pancake griddle. This all sounds intimating but considering the fact that you have a large farm and will constantly be dealing with these types of lights and issues, it is a good Idea to get the skills to repair them.

I appreciate your reply. I've watched the video @_AV posted and the bit I was missing was the heat table. I see Amazon has some cheap Chinese ones that would probably do for occasional use. I already have a USB microscope and soldering iron, solder, wick, etc. So I'd just need to figure out sourcing some replacements LEDs. I may try this some time soon. I have a hard time justifying $1k radions that only last two years.

For now I just modified my schedule to not use the UV channel and the light has not gone into "open circuit" mode. If I turn off just the UV channel I don't think I'm missing out on much anyway.

 

[CoralFragZ]

I appreciate your reply. I've watched the video @_AV posted and the bit I was missing was the heat table. I see Amazon has some cheap Chinese ones that would probably do for occasional use. I already have a USB microscope and soldering iron, solder, wick, etc. So I'd just need to figure out sourcing some replacements LEDs. I may try this some time soon. I have a hard time justifying $1k radions that only last two years.

For now I just modified my schedule to not use the UV channel and the light has not gone into "open circuit" mode. If I turn on just the UV channel I don't think I'm missing out on much anyway.

You can use an electric pancake griddle as well. That's how I do all of my chips with great success.

 

[CoralFragZ]

I appreciate your reply. I've watched the video @_AV posted and the bit I was missing was the heat table. I see Amazon has some cheap Chinese ones that would probably do for occasional use. I already have a USB microscope and soldering iron, solder, wick, etc. So I'd just need to figure out sourcing some replacements LEDs. I may try this some time soon. I have a hard time justifying $1k radions that only last two years.

For now I just modified my schedule to not use the UV channel and the light has not gone into "open circuit" mode. If I turn on just the UV channel I don't think I'm missing out on much anyway.

I believe they are SemiLed get them on Aliexpress for pretty cheap.