Getting 1st fish next week - Did I miss anything

[DaveFe]

Wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything as I'll be putting a LA order in this weekend and getting my first fish next week, I've never gone through a TTM and QT before so was hoping people could double check I'm good to go. I'll be ordering 3 flasher wrasses (I have screens). Tank has been cycled for about a month currently just a few snails in there chowing down on all the algae.

I'll be using 5 gallon buckets for TTM, I have two heaters, two sets of PVC elbows and such for hiding places, and multiple airstones so I won't have to reuse one through the process. Am I missing anything here? My other thought was I have LOTS of live rock rubble in my fuge, thought I could throw some in just in case of ammonia build up. Obviously would totally dry and clean before going back in fuge.

Once TTM is over and the fish are in QT should I medicate or watch to see if any signs of disease show up? If medicate please recommend brands. My QT is a 20 gallon tank with hood and biowheel style filter. I've had the wheel in my fuge to hopefully seed with bacteria. Again I could pull rubble from fuge if needed.

Last question (I think) is what to feed through TTM and QT, I've only ever used flakes for my freshwater tanks. My LFS carries a frozen food line called San Francisco Bay, which I can get if if it's smart to start with frozen food.

I won't lie I'm a little intimidated by this whole process, anything I'm missing or general tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[mcarroll]

Isn't TTM supposed to be your QT so they end up in a real tank at the end?

Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

To maximize the well-being of the fish, either this should be considered "enough", or you should pick a different approach, IMO.

Why?

probably somewhat stressful on the fish being caught every 3 days

Don't get caught up in the wording on that quote since it's out of context. Netting is definitely stressful. Plenty of science journals agree...here's one:

The stress response in fish

• S. E. Wendelaar Bonga

Physiological ReviewsVolume 77, Issue 31997 Jul 01

https://doi.org/10.1152/physrev.1997.77.3.591​

(Google Scholar found a full PDF for it here: https://repository.ubn.ru.nl//bitstream/handle/2066/16774/11067.pdf)


Stress effects from environmental shock (eg netting out of water) could literally be affecting the fish for weeks after the event depending on the stress, the fish, et al.

TTM
To choose TTM specifically, only to then subject them to further stress, IMO you'd have to ask what are you trying to screen for? Every potential parasite? Something specific? There are better and worse arguments for either answer, but minimizing stress has to be at the core of the plan vs stacking on stress after stress in a series of treatments that amount to random, like TTM followed by medication.

FISH
If they make it through shipping, and then make it through the TTM stress all without their immune system completely breaking down, you should get them into a non-stressed environment next so recovery can begin. Not into another stressful treatment based on nothing more than suspicion. (Another, more general course of action should have been taken instead of TTM.)

If you still do TTM, maybe consider just using strong UV on the destination system for a period of time after introducing the fish if you have some paranoia left about potential pathogens? "Strong" means an appropriately sized unit for your system, running close to the bottom of its recommended flow range for maximum treatment effect, and it means installed according to the maker's best guidelines for your sys.

https://repository.ubn.ru.nl//bitstream/handle/2066/16774/11067.pdf

Observation
If they won't be going into the display tank after TTM, and TTM is still your chosen method, then make sure the QT they end up in is built like a nice (if basic) fish only system to minimize stress.

If it's built like a prison cell (small, with hard bare walls, no naturalistic decor, etc....most typical QT pics you see) you may be doing as much harm (via stress) as good by keeping them in there for more than very short-term.

An observation/longer-term QT should be "roomy". 30 gallons would be a nice average target size – and should be outfitted with a little live rock, some fake plants as well as some other decorations...PVC is ok too.

My QT is a 20 gallon tank with hood and biowheel style filter.

20 gallons is obviously better than something even smaller, and the filter should be ideal.

But it sounds like you may be getting a lot of fish....can you let us know what you have coming?

If that's the case, then something more like 40-50 gallons might be better.

(A lot of fish at once is an expert move.....adding 1-2 fish at a time is a better way to go IMO if you're not an expert...maybe even if you are. that usually requires buying locally though, due to shipping cost.)

 

[DaveFe]

Thank you for the response, I guess the reason I was saying TTM and QT was I just wasn't sure if the 13 days for TTM were really enough before going into the display. I was thinking another 2 weeks in a regular QT tank then I would have a month total of observation.
This order will be three flasher wrasses, I figured with their smaller size three would be ok in the 20 gallon.

 

[Humblefish]

Thank you for the response, I guess the reason I was saying TTM and QT was I just wasn't sure if the 13 days for TTM were really enough before going into the display. I was thinking another 2 weeks in a regular QT tank then I would have a month total of observation.
This order will be three flasher wrasses, I figured with their smaller size three would be ok in the 20 gallon.

Unfortunately, TTM is becoming less viable as Marine Velvet Disease is becoming more prevalent: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Hopefully this will not always be the case and in the future velvet will not be as big of a threat, but at present time it is what it is.

In the meanwhile, there is much debate on exactly How to QT in the first place:

1. Some choose to prophylactically treat for parasites, worms, infections, etc. by using medications/chemicals before symptoms of disease even present themselves. The argument here is by the time symptoms do show it is sometimes too late to treat/save the fish. The downside to this approach is all meds/chemicals have side effects and thus, can be harmful to fish (no way of sugarcoating it).
2. Some choose to passively observe (sometimes in a mini-DT like natural setting), and only treat if symptoms are observed. This is easier on the fish, but one must react quickly if white spots (for example) suddenly appear. If using rock/sand in this observation tank, it is advisable to have a second QT on standby which can be setup on short notice. This "treatment tank" should be bare bottom (with no rock) to avoid absorption issues with medications. You can use PVC elbows (found at Home Depot or Lowe's) as hiding places for the fish.

So, which approach is better? I've always felt whether or not to prophylactically treat has more to do with YOU than the FISH. Are you an overly observant person? Will you notice little things like elevated breathing, head twitching, yawning, etc. which necessitates further investigation/treatment? Do you have 15-20 minutes every single day to sit in front of your QT (eat dinner with your fish?) to watch for scratching, flashing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, etc.? If so, passive observation might just work for you! However, if you are always on the go, busy/hectic schedule or just don't notice the little things; then it would be wise to implement some form of prophylaxis when it comes to diseases. I recommend using Prazipro (or API General Cure) in order to deworm, and either copper or Chloroquine phosphate to treat for ich/velvet.

 

[DaveFe]

Unfortunately, TTM is becoming less viable as Marine Velvet Disease is becoming more prevalent: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Hopefully this will not always be the case and in the future velvet will not be as big of a threat, but at present time it is what it is.

In the meanwhile, there is much debate on exactly How to QT in the first place:

1. Some choose to prophylactically treat for parasites, worms, infections, etc. by using medications/chemicals before symptoms of disease even present themselves. The argument here is by the time symptoms do show it is sometimes too late to treat/save the fish. The downside to this approach is all meds/chemicals have side effects and thus, can be harmful to fish (no way of sugarcoating it).
2. Some choose to passively observe (sometimes in a mini-DT like natural setting), and only treat if symptoms are observed. This is easier on the fish, but one must react quickly if white spots (for example) suddenly appear. If using rock/sand in this observation tank, it is advisable to have a second QT on standby which can be setup on short notice. This "treatment tank" should be bare bottom (with no rock) to avoid absorption issues with medications. You can use PVC elbows (found at Home Depot or Lowe's) as hiding places for the fish.

So, which approach is better? I've always felt whether or not to prophylactically treat has more to do with YOU than the FISH. Are you an overly observant person? Will you notice little things like elevated breathing, head twitching, yawning, etc. which necessitates further investigation/treatment? Do you have 15-20 minutes every single day to sit in front of your QT (eat dinner with your fish?) to watch for scratching, flashing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, etc.? If so, passive observation might just work for you! However, if you are always on the go, busy/hectic schedule or just don't notice the little things; then it would be wise to implement some form of prophylaxis when it comes to diseases. I recommend using Prazipro (or API General Cure) in order to deworm, and either copper or Chloroquine phosphate to treat for ich/velvet.

Thanks so much for the reply @Humblefish the fish will be here Wednesday and I'm off work all week so for at least the first 5 days I'll be able to have lots of observation time, maybe going straight to QT would be the better option. And I'll pick up either Prazi or API and have something for a copper treatment ready to go just in case.